Adding an option to play old instance without stats clamped would just solve everything

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Jason Martin, Sep 6, 2021.

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  1. KHALONofOGUN 10000 Post Club

    Maybe they can loosen the clamp on elite content a bit. But it'll be hard for them to do so if the only feedback they're getting is kneejerk reactions like "the clamp is stupid" or "I hate the clamp because the playerbase sucks). Worse still, if people aren't running the content and then reporting specific details they can take action on, there won't be much they can do.
    • Like x 5
  2. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    I think at the very least elite content should get the EEG buff; it already has the rally limit and extra mechanics to make it more difficult than normal.
  3. Proxystar #Perception

    Stat clamping has never been live in this game before, let alone "rolled back" #Facts
    • Like x 4
  4. KHALONofOGUN 10000 Post Club

    Ah, gotcha. I've been saying that things are adjustable, not that they are a done deal. However, this stat clamp is not the same thing they did last time. Also, with the restoration of Source Marks to endgame content, no one is "forced" to run older content, unless they want those feats. If people deem it "impossible" to get those feats, they need to specify what the actual difficulty is. If the mechanics are not functioning properly, that can be adjusted. If people don't know what they're doing, other players can help with that. The Brute Force way is not going to play anymore. If people can't accept that, they can do without some of those feats, or they can move on from the game*. Yes, it's always possible that the company decides later on to change course again, but that won't necessarily be happening immediately.

    *Please Note: I am in no way, shape or form telling people to leave. I am simply stating what the options are on the table.
    • Like x 4
  5. Clintelligence Level 30

    I run the endgame content to get the best gear. Now I feel like my work is pointless, because for a large portion of the game, the gear I worked to get simply does not function and I get downgraded to be equal to people who have not put in the work. It very much creates a feeling of "What's the point?", as opposed to formerly where squeezing out one or two extra CR from an OP item or elite accessories felt like a great accomplishment and worth the time and effort.

    In comparison, the reason why I ran little old content before was because I had already run it when it first came out ad naseum, exhausting it through months of repeated gameplay. I stopped running it because there were no rewards and because it was boring and repetitive. When I did choose to go back and run it, to help a friend or farm a collection piece or something, it was never somehow more fun. It was the exact same boring that it already was. The only advantage was, since I had better gear, at least it was over faster.

    With the stat clamp, boring repetitive old content never improves. The experience is guarunteed to be 100% the same forever. It'll never get faster. It'll never be less annoying. And it's certainly not going to become more exciting on the 500th time we run it.

    They made old content even less appealling, and made working on gear feel pointless because that gear is no longer usable for the majority of the game.

    So if running old stuff isn't worth it, and running the new stuff doesn't actually help anymore (and the "new stuff" is actually just the same boring Old Stuff, but stat clamped up like it'll somehow be more fun on the 200th run through FoS2), there is literally nothing I look forward to doing in the game. I log in, collect my daily login reward, and then realize that I don't actually want to play any of this, so I log back out.
    • Like x 4
  6. SethZoulMonEl 10000 Post Club

    I was unaware that he had saved up source marks and invested them into a stock market, and the only way to capitalize on that market was to go back and blast through content that no longer required effort. I had no clue this game had a method for purchasing stocks. Please explain how that one works to me with the mechanics in the game.
    • Like x 1
  7. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    I know you weren't asking me, but feats mainly...but styles on alts, collections or a personal challenge to name a few things, Soloing or 2 manning Crown or Throne was pretty fun.

    Marks are honestly the lowest of reasons I'd go into old content (until 2 weeks ago), save 2 min Paradox runs or 4 mark Shadowlands on 2x source weeks ....and those I'd only do because it was very quick and I could get in solo (or with a group of 'me' as needed).
    • Like x 3
  8. Proxystar #Perception

    So much this. The only pressure point left in here now are "feats" there's no requirement to run stat clamped for anything else.

    If you're having trouble completing a feat then that's fine, come and talk about it, specifically.

    Explain what mechanics you're having trouble with, let's use "Stake Well Done" as the ultimate example because it's a burn check.

    Someone could come in here and say "#$%% this feat it's impossible" and demand a nerf, but without particulars.

    It may be that the feat genuinely needs a change, let's say Vampire Lords health is too great to beat him in 50 seconds and that may be true.

    But unless you establish first you're doing everything a reasonable person would/could do to achieve it first, then why should it be automatically believed to be broken when the problem could still be the individual players approach. I say reasonable person too because obviously you don't need to leave it where it is because its achievable only by some elite heavies.

    but it should be asked, are all people using largely optimal rotations, are all people using beneficial artifacts? Are all people using trinkets, are pyres being used?

    You also can't queue an instance and just expect feats to be handed to you, without effort just because you automatically queued, some of them you're going to have to work for through co-ordination and compliance.

    Feats are the one thing I've never really asked to be nerfed in this game, because they're used as a layer to increase difficulty and player engagement, they don't have the same balance requirements in like the content itself does when you're balancing something around a "subjective view of instance difficulty" which leads to all the arguments about elite content difficulty.

    Feats are there to provide that additional challenge for players who might otherwise find content easier than others, they do all however get easier with time.

    The feats in Wonderverse are obviously easier now than they were when they were released, because players have "progressed" despite their protests that they haven't.

    Without the clamp the feats were becoming so easy they were arguably entirely trivialized in terms of their value, it was probably too far in terms of trivializing that achievement.

    The million dollar question of course is "how much do we reign that back by", which is what the real argument is by the "anti clamp" crowd, because whether they admit or not, the real issue with clamping is that they're worried they'll no longer be able to get the rewards from that content if it's made to difficult for the level of skill they possess.

    The other unliked question of course is when do you say to a person, enough is enough and use that gosh darn elitist phrase "perhaps you need to git gud".
    • Like x 3
  9. Proxystar #Perception

    Yeah my post above probably adequately highlights your concern about feats :)

    In terms of soloing a raid, I agree it was pretty fun, unfortunately it probably also wasn't ideal. it's intended to be 8 man content and doing it by yourself was probably a perversion of its original intent, despite any fun that might have been derived from smashing it into the ground by yourself :D
    • Like x 1
  10. OnlyNomad The One Above All

    I'm curious about the people telling others to put the time and effort like they did, did you guys get all your Skill Points while the content was current? I highly doubt it...

    A lot of people here are acting like they never took advantage of the trivialized content, lol. The rhetoric thrown around here that new players will have to pull themselves from their boot straps and earn their SPs like we did is hilarious.

    People are using Skill Points as a measuring stick for others while they got theirs in a Cracker Jack bag. I think it's time this game starts rewarding actual skill, leadership and competence over wallet size and play time.
    • Like x 4
  11. Roocck Committed Player

    Lmao, well said…. Everyone also forgotten that at some time they too have gotten a free ride on the bus…. Everyone in the DCUOBOT world have had someone help them by getting what they have… From SP to Gear….. That’s a fact…..
    • Like x 1
  12. The Con Dedicated Player

    It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with the Kardashian wealth being earned or not...

    You asked for an example... You got one.
    • Like x 2
  13. The Con Dedicated Player

    Are you siding that The Kardashians deserve their wealth regardless the degree that we decide that they actually earned it?
    • Like x 1
  14. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Well I think 9 hours of FOS3 Spam is pretty perverted as well....so I guess we all have our little kinks. As long as I was doing it to myself (sounds really kinky now...) why would it concern anyone else? This has always been my argument with AQS....let those who want to smash...smash. Let those who want a clamp...clamp. Not sure why one side of this argument has always shown such great concern for how someone else plays the game impacts them, yet is perfectly fine with impacting others as long as it suits their needs or feeling on how things should be. You can argue against 'trivializing' the content or how things were 'intended' but the game was intended with progression in mind, which meant at some point we'd be overpowered....stupid overpowered in some cases.

    And my concern for 'feats' was not that some would be too difficult now (save some elite or burn check feats like 'steak well done') other than the same difficulty we've always had...getting 8 people to work for something that only 1 or 2 want or need. I don't see the clamp or omni helping with this...only hurting. It would be easier to get 1 or 2 to work on that feat vs corralling 6 or 7 others into it. There are a ton of feats in this game which should be 0 difficulty before or after the clamp, but yet....are almost unattainable with 1 ding dong in the group. Believe me I've gotten multiple alt accounts over 400+ SP mainly by soloing duos, raids and alerts, because the only ding dong I was dealing with was myself since I implemented my own version of AQS a few years ago. These days are gone...back to corralling cats.
    [IMG]
    • Like x 3
  15. Proxystar #Perception

    I appreciate what you're saying, I really do, you know I respect your viewpoint. I think what it really comes down to though is "effort vs reward", "reward vs difficulty".

    I don't have any issue with an optional clamping system, I've really made that clear over the years, despite the fact I'm happy with the current clamping system, doesn't change my view that an ideal system would always be one that provides the player with options (despite the fact I think the ease of the clamp already makes it unnecessary)

    The trouble of course is how would those options be most healthily implemented and does the option become detrimental if factions are created i.e. half the community runs clamped and half runs unclamped, dividing queues.

    At the moment you've got people unhappy with the clamp but at least its an equal playing in field in terms of everyone is forced to run the same stuff, that isn't to say an option isn't necessarily a bad long term idea, just that it comes with its own pros and cons.

    The other issue of course is, if you choose to run unclamped, what sort of reward does the player really deserve? i'd suggest probably none, but that's just because what reward have you really earned by rofl-stomping the content in the way we did pre clamp?

    I certainly don't think running unclamped should reward a player with source marks, that should just be categorically off the table, I would also go as far as saying gear drops should also be off the table.

    That only really leaves the "feats" so it always, from my perspective at least, comes back to that.

    Should we allow players to run un-clamped so they can rofl-stomp feats like they no longer matter? Yeah not sure... that's the million dollar question I mentioned :)
    • Like x 3
  16. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    No the stats clamp isn’t forcing people to be at level. It’s putting them above level while also letting a percentage of their stats bleed through. If players are feeling at level than sorry to say it but maybe they aren’t as good as they think. Most adds still die pretty quickly. Within a single rotation. Sometimes even far less. Bosses aren’t to hard. The only thing killing people now are mechanics. If people are dying to mechanics than either the mechanics need to be looked at or the player needs to see what they are doing wrong.

    Even in FoSe. Players aren’t dying to the boss or the adds. They are dying to mechanics. People aren’t blocking when first boss teleports. People aren’t setting someone for the farthest person mechanic. Players are ignoring crystals. The second boss is even easier. But people are getting hit by debris and the jackhammer and wondering why they die. On the bridge. People are standing close to the sentries and wondering why they die. In the last boss players are not blocking or rolling away from the purple ball. Players are spawning the gold orbs and standing in them. Players are attracting the lightning tentacles.

    As a player the content is getting easier whether you want to admit it or not. Even clamped you out level and out gear the content because of the bleeding stats. You have a great advantage against those people who are at level to that content. Saying you’re not is a straight lie. The devs gave players that difference. However you and no one earned the right to ignore mechanics. If you don’t follow mechanics than that’s on you. As harsh as it sound it’s the truth.
    • Like x 4
  17. Proxystar #Perception

    Just because you keep saying this, doesn't make it true.

    A clamped player does not feel like a beginner.
    • Like x 2
  18. jpharrah1010 Steadfast Player

    Hopefully the devs can chime in to put this argument to rest it’s getting tiresome
  19. Proxystar #Perception

    The fact they've not rolled it back by now and are only taking feedback and tweaking things instance by instance should indicate the answer already.

    "Stat clamping isn't going anywhere"
    • Like x 3
  20. jpharrah1010 Steadfast Player

    Not even in the slightest

    I feel stronger than I was when i was at max cr for most of this content

    Happiness home even fully geared still was punishing if you didn’t have a tightly knit group

    I ran with pugs completely random group and the survivability from the attacks were insanely easier than before

    I haven’t done khandaq but after watching your vid it seems about the same as it was when we were t2/t3 hardly impossible
    • Like x 3
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