Test Discussion Introducing the Allies System

Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by Falagon, Aug 6, 2021.

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  1. GameOnGabeYT Well-Known Player

    We don't know yet
  2. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    A false dichotomy is a choice that presents only 2 options as solutions/outcomes when there are more than the 2 options presented.

    I read your reply and you only present 2 options to resolve the issues with the system when in fact, there are other options. That's why I explained it's a false dichotomy.

    So, when I said "you're not saving balance work" by doing it this way, you thought I said it without understanding the work involved in balancing this content? :rolleyes:

    Your solution doesn't save any work. You're not solving any of the problems that exist here bc you're not acknowledging they are problems. The balance work will have to be done regardless, with the solution you offer, you're creating more problems.

    The system is not designed around a synergy with pets to compliment them. Someone isn't throwing out half a year of work because you say they are or because additional balance work has to happen. No work is being thrown out. It's all on a spreadsheet and it's not being deleted by anyone. It's used in a different way instead. This is not a binary where balance has to be done based on the feature isolated. The balance can be done around the potential as a replacement for the other pets instead.

    Play experience > than damage potential

    There are more options and solutions than you're aware of, or able to see.

    YES. That's the objective. People can *choose* to use a pet, or sidekick, or backup, or combat pet, OR an Ally. But they CAN'T and should NOT be able to use them all at once. This is a problem on live now, and adding Allies will exponentially compound this problem making it 10x worse.

    The devs already acknowledge this is a problem they want to address. Adding a new feature in this way, that will add to the existing problem is antithetical to being committed to resolving this problem.

    The goal *is* to reduce the amount of blocking, VFX pollution, processor resources and general garbage on screen at one time improving the play experience. Putting them on a shared timer with pets means players can keep using their pets etc if they want, OR they can use an Ally instead.

    If the house is on fire you don't put it out by pouring gasoline on it and then claiming it's a victory because there's more heat to keep you warm. In the end you're still homeless.


    This is untenable and unplayable in this state. This is one player; imagine then you add a powerset pet, a combat pet, backup, and an artifact pet. Now multiply this by 8 people in an instance. OR instead multiply it by 50+ in an open world scenario. It's a complete disaster.

    Increasing the duration of the Ally doesn't throw out 6 months of work. The balance work is already done and calculated. The Ally balance would be adjusted to account for the damage a pet would be making during that time. And with less pets on screen the other problems are resolved or at least greatly reduced.

    It does not. The work is done regardless. It's all on a spreadsheet and the data is used in a different way instead.

    This is game development. This is how it works. Sometimes you explore an option only to find out you can't do it because it will negatively impact the game in other ways you haven't considered or when it gets tested turns out doesn't work as elegantly as you imagined. Letting the game go live in its current iteration will make the game "unplayable". It's currently a hot mess.

    Again.
  3. Rejchadar Inquisitor

    Well, yes, well, yes, there is your set of "correct" systems and there are "wrong" systems of developers .... this is a real false dichotomy. What you quoted was taken out of the context of the post where I indicate to you the weak points of your "correct" "systems. I did not indicate any solutions, I indicated what problems your "correct "system creates and what problems the "wrong" developer system does not create.

    You argued in your post that replacing the current system that is present on the test server with your "correct" system will not require any additional costs compared to the usual balancing of an already created system. I have indicated to you a few things that must be done in order to implement your "correct" system without fail, and which will increase the amount of work many times over. So I doubt that you understand what you are talking about.

    Who told you that the allied system was designed to solve the problems you indicated? It was not created for these purposes .... I can suggest how to improve the allied system so that it creates fewer problems if you are interested ... but my comment is not about this, but about the fact that your solution is based on creating problems elsewhere and what is the solution in this case is useless ... and on this you can complete the answer, since further ones are based on this error of yours ...


    Do you want me to give you a very easy way to solve your problem? Don't use pets in your builds and play with people who do the same, that's it !!! your problem is resolved.
    • Like x 1
  4. GameOnGabeYT Well-Known Player

    You really going back and fourth with that person, I hit them with a strong ignore, not worth the energy that person wanted to cosplay with icons as sidekicks and didn't get what they wanted now that person is having a temper tantrum.
    • Like x 1
  5. Rejchadar Inquisitor


    Apollnia and I had quite productive conversations in the past ... but you're right, we need to stop there, further conversation makes no sense ...
    • Like x 1
  6. Snoopy Level 30


    I really think its something as a community we should push for. If not extracting the Favor from one Ally to another like the mods in gear back in the day, maybe just leveling the Slot they go into. A league mate suggested the idea for Artifacts a while back. I don't think something like that will need the approval of WB/DC. Leveling the slot to the Ally is a simple enough idea that wont cause issues with the tech.

    Depending on the level of the slot only grants access to those bonuses. For example leveling a slot to 5 stars only grants the passives for up to that Ally level. Same goes for leveling the slots to 8 and 10 stars will only grants those passives for they respective unlocked levels.

    I've given 3 suggestions on how to implement a trade in Ally Favor system for the game. All of which have had a similar system in the game already over the years.
  7. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    You offered incorrect solutions and you're unable to perceive the system and its issues outside of a narrow perspective so you're unable to solve issues related to that limited perspective.

    Not making problems =/= making problems.
  8. Captain1Dynamo Committed Player

    But the devs know, & that's why I'm asking them. Don't know why every player thinks I'm talking to them, I'm not, I'm asking the only people on here who can actually answer questions: the devs.

    And here's another question, devs:
    -Will there be Feats for acquiring and/or levelling up Allies?

    Now I did find a partial answer to my question about costs, but only partial. When you open the test box you get 9 Allies. Some of them have costs listed on them in Source Marks:

    -Flash 100 SM
    -Professor Zoom 100 SM
    -Calculator-Bot 20 SM
    -Oracle-Bot 20 SM
    -Cyborg 100 SM
    -Queen Diana Unknown
    -Flashpoint Batman Unknown
    -Emperor Aquaman Unknown
    -House of Legends Bot 20 SM

    So maybe that's what they'll cost. By the looks of it cost is based on how far you can level them up. Flash/Zoom/Cyborg go to 8 stars, so they cost five times more than the Bots, which only go to 5 stars. But how much will the others be since they go to 10 stars? Or would those be earned in-game somehow?
    • Like x 2
  9. GameOnGabeYT Well-Known Player

    You just have to be direct brother cause we don't know who your asking in a chat with other testers with little dev interaction.
  10. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    It would be nice if purchased Legends characters carried over into the equivalent Ally in PVE. I wonder if they considered this.
  11. Canadian Justice Committed Player

    Taking the system for what it is, I like it. Superman swoops in, clobbers this or that and heads out to save some cat in a tree. Allies are around long enough to feel their presence but not so long that they can take over a whole combat scenario.

    I'll handle allies much in the same way I did artifacts. Invest in the ones I believe in, ignore the ones that fiit niches that go against my playstyle.

    Legendary allies...... a bit (ok, more than a bit) costly. Not sure I'll pick up any of the first batch. Actually interested in Wonder Woman but not a fan of the skin. I'll wait for a varient with a better look and hopefully the same active/passive combo.

    Which does raise the question. How will character varients be handled? Will they be entirely new allies to level or will they be sold as skins? Or maybe a mixture of both? It would be annoying to level up the very costly Legendary Flashpoint WW only to get a better looking skin released at a future date that requires a full relevel.
  12. Falagon Developer


    We want each ally we release to be a unique and interesting piece to add to your collection. Each one will have its own set of combat and passive abilities. There won't be any duplicates. This means that even variants will be different from each other. So, as we are releasing Queen Diana with this first batch, but you can be sure that if/when we release another Wonder Woman such as Bombshell Diana or Nubia, it will be different not just in looks but in abilities as well.
    • Like x 3
  13. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    Unfortunately this means we won't participate in the system for most of these then. You'll get completionists who want them all but the rest of us will wait for one that we're legitimately interested in. They're too much work to not approach the system this way.
  14. Jafin 10000 Post Club

    Bug: If you use Oracle as a villain you get the red version that we fought against before. The rockets she shoots have her normal green colouring. I thought first maybe it was intended for her to be red since I'm a villain, but if you summon Calculator Bot as a hero he stays his normal red colour instead of changing to green. Full disclosure: I like this bug and would be happy to see it stay.

    [IMG]
  15. Multiverse 15000 Post Club


    No I won't want them all.
    I already don't want Calculator and Oracle.... and probably Flashpoint WW. ;)
    • Like x 1
  16. Hraesvelg Always Right


    Welcome to almost every type of video game ever invented. Some people will just want to play alone, some people will want to play with friends, some people will want to 100%, some people will want to speedrun, some people will want to 100% speedrun, some people will want to have all of the allies, some will go for cosmetics/RP, some will go for the most "effective" combat allies....it's a little bit for multiple playstyles.
    • Like x 1
  17. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    You misunderstand my reply. I'm not replying to players who think they need to explain to me how videogames work. I'm replying to the Devs who haven't fixed pvp in years because they don't want to spend money on features and systems they can't generate revenue from.

    The problem with PVP Legends is that 1 character comes out and if you don't care about that character no one buys it. It's wasted development resources. This is the exact same system at play here in Allies, so I have to point out the contradiction in investing resources into it when it's designed to suffer from the same fundamental issue as Legends and many other system that the game struggles with. I was making the business case against this feature and defanging it when it's deployed against the community the next time we ask for new features.
  18. Canadian Justice Committed Player

    This was mentioned in a general topic post, so I thought I'd bring it up here and try to get clarification to prevent any live server spill over.

    Will it be intended for us to swap allies, passive or active, in combat? As in have Aquaman in while we use a supercharge to reduce active cooldown then swap him out right after. There is limited potential given the initial batch of allies but it would be nice to know if this style if play is being considered/supported.
    • Like x 3
  19. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    It'd be nice to throw in Cyborg if the troll goes out
  20. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    Do armories save different allies builds? Never thought to check.

    And back to some general feedback... This is a message a friend sent me. It's an example and is only one message but it's indicative of our whole league's feelings on this system, more or less.

    [IMG]

    I suspect when the feature goes live, the silent majority of players who agree with this take will start offering this feedback.
    • Like x 1
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