Work In Progress DCUO Development Update - July 2021 - House of Legends Discussion

Making the content available to all and playable via the Quick Play is very good idea. In Final Fantasy XIV it is called a Daily Roulette on the Journal. We will be able to play old content in DCUO as well as newer content in a different que for the previous 3 dlcs for end game players as I understand the plan. This is a positive thing that is being done.

New / returning players should have an easier time queing for the missions they need and we get the source marks we need as a result of filling out the que with a wider population pool to choose from. This is my understanding of how it is going to work which if so is a very very good thing.

Having said that, end game players such as myself (CR341), will be clamped to a level as yet to be determined as I won't speculate lest I receive a toxic response from some on the pro stat clamp side.

I am opposed to being clamped not because I want to 'one shot' anything as has been suggested in other posts but simply because it is to me a punishment for working hard to get to my CR and my SP and leveling my artifacts & augments & OP gear pieces.

I have accepted what is going to happen and shall give it a try as will my league. I trust Mepps. But I will not be happy about it and it's no matter anyways if end game players are happy about it or not. End game CR players are just out of luck as they say and we have to suck it up or play something else as I see it.

Again, apologies for being bitter but that just how I feel about being punished for being strong. All we can do is work together thru this.

So you looked at one statement instead of the entire post and decided to strawman it as me wanting stat-clamping, mmm okay.


You do as you wish, I ain't elaborating on my concept further.

Just gonna drop this in here too

And this is for everyone just in case you don't get it..

Stat clamping all content will never allow anyone to be more powerful in any content..there will always be limits you cannot surpass

Endgame is always limited.. it is the max gear, etc..the next episode will increase the stats on gear but will also increase in difficulty..the lower episode will become a little easier as you progress..but it will eventually drop into not endgame content and will be clamped..no matter how much you progress past it you will never be more powerful in this content than the clamp allows..never

All not endgame content will be clamped..there will be certain stat limits that you will never be able to surpass in whatever not endgame content you are in..no matter how much you progress you will never be anymore powerful in this content than the clamp allows

Or you can think about this way..Endgame will be the most difficult content but you will never get more powerful in it than the restrictions put on you by the clamp when it is no longer endgame no matter how much you progress or how far away it gets from endgame

Whichever way you want to look at it, this change is effectively the end of power growth in this game..you will never be able to be stronger in any content than what is allowed by that content's clamp

There probably will be, but there will equally so probably be equally those people trying to be excessive with the clamps.

No doubt the best position will certainly be somewhere in the middle and I'd anticipate the best spot is probably where neither of us are entirely happy, because then we know there's some give and take and a true compromise has been found

The more people giving feedback during testing, no doubt the better.

I don't agree with this Scarlet, or perhaps I'm misinterpreting your intent, but why should a duo require the other party (beyond the extent that it already does) even in relevant content, you don't need your partner in a duo, why should content magically be clamped so that suddenly you do, that seems disproportionate?

Obviously I'm carrying at that point but I mean I can already do the most relevant duo without my partner if I so choose, I mean it's not easy, but its certainly easily doable with skill.

You are correct a lot of people would object to having to strip off their armor...make themselves weaker...make everything take longer....but at least it was an OPTION. Yet, this is exactly what is being put in except now it's no longer optional and they are throwing source at us for the trouble. Seeing as there will now(currently) be 4 less raids, 21 less alerts and 14 less duo/solo to get source on each week (not including the 100+ source you could get on the outdoor stuff), yes, you are being forced to run that content...and 'strip off' your gear via clamping to replace the lost income. This is tacked on to those same runs you will likely still run for the 'current' income.

It's not very hard to see the issue, you already spelled it out yourself above.

I agree the low level content was too easy if you were trying to have an 'authentic' run...and yes, it was difficult to get a group to give you that experience (especially 8 of them for a raid), but how many 'authentic' runs will anyone want in old content once they are past it? Once you reach CR 200 or 300, how many times a week will you desire to hit T1-T6 content, assuming you have a decent amount of source built up...even then, if you need 10 or 20 marks, will you run FOS2 or FOS3? Will you run HH or NGN? Or will you just go to JLD area and get the 32 marks you can get by doing the 4 weeklies outdoor missions?.....64 if you do them twice...much faster than any of those above raids.

That's a serious question, do you honestly believe you will continue to run the harder/longer runs once you've done them a few times for the challenge? I submit most will not. Endgame is not in need of a clamp, yet no one is in LFG shouting for 'weak' people there...they want all the advantage they can get. And when they do end up in a 'weak' group, they leave or vote to kick. Hey, even I occasionally want to go slog through an old school FOS2...or Paradox and Nexus...then I ran LPVE a few times and realized I didn't want to do it multiple times a month (maybe year)....again....that option will be gone.

As I've said before....'give us the choice' and I'd think we'd see pretty easy how many choose the clamp and how many do not. I'd guess it would be pretty uneven after an initial few months. I guess we'll see how it pans out in the real world.

Hey DCUO peeps, thought I'd log in to the forums given the recent announced changes. In reading what's instore for our beloved game, I think the overall changes will make the game itself more even and easier for more players. In-order to access parts of this game, membership was needed. I can understand the notion of removing these restrictions as it impeded to flow of the game in general. I wished these where in-place when I first started.

Though, this being said, I can relate to expressions presented surrounding that of membership not meaning much now. I think people are expecting a little something extra that's not available without it (escrow was definitely one!). Its stated that "We want membership to be such an incredible deal that you feel silly playing without it, but not something that feels required to enjoy the game." I can understand this but it is NEW to the game. People are going to question this and ask if its worth the price of membership. (I mean your eliminating the promethium lockboxes, though repetitive, these were a exclusive to membership...right?) The current monthly perks are used as I spend the loyalty points, $5 a month, to buy 150 replay badges I then spend to buy SP on the various toons or on getting any 1 toon those dang legendary gear pieces. I would like there to be something that's non-momentarily to be a perk of membership. I have the powers, the shield and skimming toons (is there nothing else?)

A few questions:

Will the number of maximum character slots change as well - increasing from 32? Also, will there be an increase in the amount of bases characters can have - up from 4?

Conversely, Is there any consideration given to those players with max characters who may want to end their membership but keep their number of characters? Will premium members now be allowed to purchase character slots to reach the current max? Is the 32 max still a pure membership luxury or will this too be available if premium?

Will there be any consideration given to players whom have purchased individual episodes?

I'm assuming that sidekicks and henchmen are a thing of the past, am I correct? Will these Icons be interchangeable (i.e., can I change from Zoom if in DPS to Cyborg if tank? Also, will these new iconic sidekicks actually fight? More-so that is than the current henchmen assist in a fight? Of are they going to be as useful in a fight as they currently are in the raids?

lastly, to all players with more characters than they care to admit: will the new changes make you reconsider your character load? Be honest with me, as I to am considering on deleting the 10 free toons (if not purchasable) I'm thinking the new format be far less conducive to having max characters. This was my only reason for having membership now, but given the game is seemingly going to be more of a grind than it already is, im thinking cutting extras now than waiting for my membership to expire in May.

I've gone though DCUO changes before and am still a fan of the game. I don't see these changes changing that ... my membership...???

Please feel free to respond.

Thanks for reading.

Just gonna post this here too..hopefully it will be seen..

I think having endgame versions of older raids for an event or episode is fine..I mean I'd rather have new content but it's fine

Upscaled versions of things are fine..if the not upscaled versions are still available

Same goes for clamped versions..

I think being able to queue for clamped versions of older content would be fine..as long as the unclamped versions are available too..it would allow people to play things as designed IF THEY WANT TO..

It adds something for a certain group of people but it doesn't take away from another group..that's something that needs to be considered here..well, everywhere really..that you don't need to take things from one group to give things to another

But forcing a clamp on everyone in everything is complete and total ******** plain and simple..there's really no other way to say it..absolute ****..for all the reasons I've listed over and over in this thread and others

Maybe try not doing things at the expense of one group and just try adding things for everyone

Nothing you’ve said through all these different threads is news to the devs. We’ve had a million back & forth’s on the subject of stat clamping with many of those old threads having to be locked or deleted because of how heated it got. Trust me Mepps has seen your reasoning (no disrespect) articulated even more convincingly than you have done.....yet they still decided to proceed with this.

That is what you and all those trying to offer your ‘insights’ into why it won’t work do not seem to realise. Find a new script, think of something that hasn’t already been said. Mepps has already replied in one of these threads about how cognisant they are about the divisiveness of a change like this.....yet they are still proceeding.

What does this tell you? To me it says, your insights are clearly missing something. Despite how many likes you guys got and how much you felt like a majority on the forums something was clearly missed.

I have no idea what was missed, I have my suspicions but that’s not the point of my post. I’m not trying to gloat or make anyone who is anti clamp feel bad, please do vent your frustrations, with such a massive change emotions are high that much is evident. But also try to understand, that the devs understand everything you are saying....but clearly they think this is better for the game.....whatever the points are, you guys are missing them, rehashing the same points from all the many, many, many, many stat clamping threads is unlikely to help your cause. But feel free to continue trying.

I don't know if there was such a proposal on all these pages, but a small compromise is possible for both parties. With each new DLC, the ceiling for the stat clamp will be increased.
Example: Episode 41 comes out, and the ceiling for "clamp" is higher 50 CR than the recommendations for content, Episode 42 comes out and the ceiling increases to 51 CR, Episode 43 comes out and the ceiling increases to 53 ... and so on ... (digital taken just for example) .... in the end we have both stat clamp and little progress ...

In the last post, I suggested a very simple system to implement, but it only offers progress with the release of the new DLC.

But you can make a system that will take into account the progress during the DLC. The easiest way to do this is to create a simple formula for calculating the "Clamped CR" based on a percentage of the player's actual CR:

a simple example: "clamped cr" = recommended cr for content + 15% of the player's real CR.

Thus, if the recommended CR for content is 100 CR and the player's current CR at the time of the start of the new DLC is 342, then its "Clamped CR" will be 151.3. if during the duration of the DLC he raises his CR to 350, then his CR will jump to 152.5 CR ...

It still remains to be seen if they go forward with all the changes..so it hasn't happened until it actually happens..and until then I'll try to do what I can and will continue trying until it does happen..even if it ends up being futile

And it keeps being said by me and others because those are the better, more fair options for everyone..even if the devs can't see that

But if and when it does then that will be that..because it will tell me they don't give a crap about or respect players that have played and supported their game for the better part of a decade...it will tell me they don't respect players that have put massive time and effort (and money) into the game to power up their characters...and I said it before (with more detail) and I'll say it again..if they don't respect the things I mentioned before (in more detail) and clamp everything then the game will not be worth playing..a game that chooses to reward people for doing less over people that have done more is not worth playing..a game that takes those things away from people is not worth playing

I'm not gonna miss a game that has **** on one part of their game for years and now wants to **** on everything else by stat clamping EVERYTHING..there's really not much of a point in playing a progression based superhero game that's basically PVE only where any sort of power growth will no longer exist..if there is a stat clamp at all in game it trivializes progression..but stat clamping everything..at that point no real progression or power growth really exists

And on the flip side I'm sure I won't be missed by the game/devs or whatever or people like you and the community..but if this is how it's gonna be I won't miss the game..(and no disrespect) but I won't miss people like you and I sure as **** won't miss this mostly toxic community ..so at that point I guess it will work out for everyone..well as long as there isn't a much larger group of people that feel like me or don't like some of the other changes and stop playing and paying their subs..or maybe people like me and others that are upset with other things like the new Premium stuff are the minority..but honestly the game won't matter to me one way or the other if these changes take place

You said it was late where you are so hope you’re not expecting a long reply from me, get some rest (again no disrespect intended).

I’ll just leave you with something Jack told me (paraphrasing) when I said I was dropping my sub. “You’ll still have access to the game even if you don’t sub so hope you come back soon”. And that was years ago, now premium is even more inviting. Maybe you’ll never come back, but if you do it will be easier to get back into the game than ever.

I share your general overall sentiment about trivializing progression and it's why I've always been heavily opposed to stat clamping...

But...

I think if its done correctly it's probably (I emphasise that word probably) not going to be a complete disaster.

All of us probably need to put aside our petty differences in terms of who is right or wrong when it comes to this topic, I've definitely tried my very best to approach this discussion, given it's obviously how they want to direct their game, with more of an open mind than I have in the past, and I was very much like you before.

This is the direction the developers want to go down and I think we all need to be work together to find that balance, I really do think you're wasting your time trying to overturn this direction, I know you don't mind, but it's probably not worth the mental effort.

That being said the two extremities at either side of this argument probably need to sit down and let the more moderate approach prevail.

Obviously clamping everyone to level or around level of a piece of content is as equally stupid as virtually not clamping at all.

I get it, the newer players or nostalgic players (whatever we term them for lack of a better word) want a closer experience to that which was originally experiences when that particular piece of content was fresh, they want to avoid mechanics being undermined and bosses being one shot in 0.5 seconds.

On the other hand the efficient veteran players and some other players that enjoy hulk smashing things want to do exactly that.

The obvious solution is in the middle ground, the clamp cannot be so low as to make a player feel like they're never progressing, it needs to feel "demonstrably easier" when you've hit whatever that clamped ceiling is, but not so far I guess as to mean you are melting that boss.

Let's take a raid example from early game, Gates, on the last boss there's obviously mechanics, statues come up, magic does fire, etc. Now at the moment 342 players melt the living **** out of it before anything goes off, now I can't believe I'm saying this and some people I've argued with in the past will no doubt be shocked it's coming from me, but.

Perhaps at least being weak enough to have those mechanics go off at least once or twice before we've managed to kill the boss isn't entirely a bad thing. The clamp could be high enough so that we're realistically players with skill are never really at risk of considering it anything other than rather easy but at the same time not completely trashing the experience.

I think this is happening whether we like it or not, whatever the reason doesn't matter (I think its simply because changes within Daybreak, EG7, creative directional staffing changes have meant a shift in vision - but that's besides the point)

With that being the case I think the most important part of this feedback process will be hopping on the test server when it becomes available and helping find common ground somewhere in the middle where neither part is particularly happy but where this is enough compromise found that either camp can go away having felt they've achieved something out of it and a better game experience as a result.

At the end of the day you can never please everybody with changes and updates. This is the direction the devs felt is best for the game at the moment even though I'm opposed to alot of it, but I understand what they are trying to do to help bring in and keep more players. For end game players we still have the option of whether we want to participate in older content or not, aswell as forming our own groups with players that know the mechs of the raids already.

I honestly don't recall saying Elite wouldn't be involved with Tier 3. Currently, until episode 40, tier 3 was only obtained in Survival Mode and is locked behind it. Players wanted Tier 3 without having to do SM and the obvious place was to put them in Elite. If I conveyed something incorrectly, then apologies. In the end though, a sneak peak (I typoed snake peak and almost kept it so I'll use that as a reference). If you want a Tier 2 Snake Turret then you have to collect all the Normal Mode headlines from Metal 1. If you want Tier 2 Snake then you have to collect all the Normal Mode and all the Elite headlines from Metal 1. Just once. There is no farming renown in Elite to unlock access on the pet vendor (another spoiler - Chang Tzu is that said vendor, he's spicy).

In addition, not all the pets, but as many as I can get away with in the time I have now (and what I can do as I go through the pets in the future) those pets can drop from certain content like they did with the Nightmare Bats in EP40. Tier 1 would drop from Event (only in Event so this is a thing that moves forward, not retroactively) or you buy from the Store with no requirements other than source marks. Tier 2 would drop from False Idols raid in Metal 1 - Normal mode. Tier 3 would drop from False Idols - Elite mode. These pets that drop would be same stat values as the one you can purchase off Chang Tzu but they would have a small Feat attached, like they did in EP 40 with the Nightmare Bats - collect any Tier 2 or Tier 3 pets that drop in that content and get a Feat thing.

That was done to cover a few different aspects of player wishes and behavior - some like farming for those feats - for themselves and to sell on the broker for others. Some don't care about it and just want to buy it in a much easier and cheaper way from Chang Tzu. All pets from Seahorse and Brainiac Drone are tiered now but not all pets will drop in content. Seahorse for example? You can get that tier 3 off the store if you do the headlines (play the content once), or you can farm for whatever tier you want in the related content (Seahorse may be in the throne raid or crown of thrones raid - TBD). Not will have a t2 and t3 drop. Vampire Bat? May see a tier 2 drop from the Darkness Rising alert in JLD (it's mine so i'm partial... lol) but a tier 3 version won't drop unless that alert had an elite version too, which it doesn't.


For you fire lovers out there - look for a flaming bird pet being added to Amazon Fury III.

I'll be adding more over time to see where they make sense and to get pets that cover as many powerset needs as possible too (looking for an ice one next).

Chang tzu? Awesome can we get his little children as a pet?

I thought about it. It's a weird one because his egg drones aren't in any content that I could fit into the current system (collect X amount of headlines from elite and normal to get a tier 3 or tier 2). But who knows what his machinations are - maybe he'll show up in content down the road where his little drones can make a come back and get earned from players.

Ill have to make a munitions pig called The Baconator & have him summoning mini egg ppl xD lol

So with the system being headline based, will you add in any for pre 30 headlines? The ones i can think of would be: Parasite minion, Omac Drone, Scarab Beetle & the venom dogs (tiny Rinty)