Dev Discussion Better Membership

Haven't read the whole thread, obv ^^ so I might be repeating but here's my tuppence worth.

2x Armory for your base.

It's difficult even as a member to run your two roles effectively without them. Members shouldn't have to fight with that.

In the whole free stuff vs customization argument, while I'm not against getting more free stuff every month most other games today make the vast majority of their money from styles and customizations and, perhaps coincidentally, have fewer "pay2win" complaints .

Lots of them even have PvP.

I've played many MMORPG over the years and none of them had such a thing as a cash cap, you did missions or grinded for that cash, its not fair you're not even able to use it without a paywall, so even if its needed to include more and more benefits to the membership, please remove the cash cap for free players, or atleast for premium ones.

I just proved my point. It is, in fact, subjective. All I had to do to prove it was subjective, was give my previous reply and break down why I don't care about the things you care about.

I didn't reply to your list because I was trying to challenge you to write out all that (I wasn't). And actually I apologize for making you write it all out. I've been playing longer than you and 95% of the players here, and been here longer than most of the Devs working for the game too. So, I don't need you to 'splain how valuable or important anything is to me. I went line by line to show you that you care about things the rest of us don't care about. And you can brush that off and say I'm a scrub player or sub par (or imply it) but it's not going to change what I care or don't care about. And it won't change the fact that most players probably care about the stuff I care about more than they care about what you do.

From your suggestions it sounds like you have more than 3 arts maxed to 200. And that you plan to level, and max, even more. My arts are done. I'll never need another seal. I guarantee you the avg player has (at most) 1 and it's their fav and they won't do more unless Artifacts start being a lot more compelling. Most of them are probably under 160. And they definitely won't do more than the 3 to 6 they chose for their role/s. They won't care about seals or Nth metal.

There's probably a few thousand elite and hardcore players who would like your proposed perks and would benefit from your list but the overwhelming majority; tens of thousands of players, play much more casually and don't care at all about most of what you propose. It's not going to motivate them to stay subbed or sub.

Well I think we're talking about different things. When I say "styles" I'm assuming stuff like what I suggested where basically customization options are expanded to include things like Styles for Powersets, Personalities, Movement Modes and so on... and then all of that is locked behind membership. When you say styles I don't know what you mean because of the variety of suggestions people have made. If you mean what I'm talking about; yes. We already know it works by how it's worked for other games and currently keeps Champions Online alive (against all odds -- lol) and keeps modern games selling styles alive too. If you just mean offering a few costumes to members; no.

I think you're over estimating the value of discounts to most players. "Perks" won't keep most players subbed and won't attract many new ones.

There were two main reason to sub

1. open episdoes
2. the broker

Freebies are and always have been a bonus, no matter how many freebies you throw at membership it will never compensate for the value of open episodes. The only thing that could replace it would be a new member exclusive feature similar to the broker or multiple smaller features.

I never said it wasn't subjective, however when creating membership benefits I think any reasonable person is going to go through what's listed here and probably rank what has been requested and how many times. Just taking a quick glance, how many people do you think are in your camp of "heavy game changes" v.s "give me a seal of completion".

Also LOLOL at that yellow comment. I've been playing since the very very beginning my friend and never left or taken a break, so trust me you're going to struggle to beat me in that department; not that it matters however.

And look at you still trying to say "us" like you're in a majority speaking for more people than you really are, again go through this thread and take a look at what people are requesting, I can actually do it for you if you like.

I'm also not brushing you off as a "casual" player, I was highlighting the reason you think the way you do and the way you disregarded the perks I suggested you are a more "casual player", because that's what you are, that isn't intended to be offensive, it's just a statement of fact something you've reinforced again when you talk about your artifacts.

I would however, also assert you're wrong. I think a lot of casual players would level their artifacts more but choose not too because they become disheartened by the by extent of effort required, if that were reduced I think you'd find more players especially sitting in the casual/serious category would put in more effort.

Not to mention the casual/serious category (excluding the extremely hardcore) are also the types of player running 10+ alts at times simply for the sake of variety, my list heavily benefits making your alts stronger with less gates keeping your alts perpetually lower than any designated main.

Facts. I play like 3 hours every other day, so this game ain't nowhere near my main and even I'd want the membership revamp to include some kind of special feature for Stabs/Quarks/Arts/Alts. After looking at my main char and seeing the 30-60 pages of styles on each category, I don't even bother updating or making any new styles anymore. In fact, one of my armories kept the base-default of the blue slimline look you get when creating a new character. With constant seasonal updates, TC, new episodes, and updated episode rewards, there's plentiful amounts of styles always coming. While for obtaining/lvling stuff like Stabs/Quarks/Arts/Alts, let's be honest here, those who been playing the game long enough would know that without the bonus weeks, these things are beyond grindy af, too slow, or have to whip out the wallet to keep up. It get's to the point people feel force to hold out until the appropriate bonus week comes around

This you?

Closed beta. Not that it's a competition, but if it was; I win.

You didn't offend me. I pointed it out bc you keep condescending unnecessarily. Presuming I know less than you when you talk to me, is wasting your time 'splaining it all. I'm trying to help you save everyone's time. Plus it's not a good look.

lol hun, asserting the sky is red won't make it red.

Strawman/Goalpost move. No one is arguing players won't use it if it's there. We're debating if they care about it and if they care about it enough to motivate them to sub or stay subbed.

add 12 habilities more to use ingame.. 2 more bars with 6 skills each one... totally 3... the players can change the Habilities bar into the battle pressing any special Key to move Bar up and Bar down.. or too can use it pressing same before keys + other key.. for example in Playstation key L2... for example in PC... skill 1 = Key 1 so in the second barr for example can be key 1 + Control... and bar 3 can be Alt +1 ... the game is so funn.. but sometimes i miss some skills.

While I appreciate the devs trying to harness the power of our imaginations, this thread would have been a gazillion times more productive if we were given a multiple choice pole allowing us to choose up to three options with maybe one “write-in” choice. Most of these answers sound like people think they’ve been granted three DCUO wishes by a genie.

The devs are going to pick what is feasible. Its true half the people here smoked a huge one before posting, but a lot of requests converge (stabilizers, discounts, bonus xp)

To cut through all the unnecessary emotive hyperbole in your post here, I took a quick scroll through just the first three pages of this thread.

Benefits leading to enhancements surrounding artifacts were requested 17 times, increased Nth Metal 14 times, Extra Seals or seal drops 12 times, more source marks 8 times, more stabilizers 10 times, more replay badges 7 times, Increased Daybreak Cash 6 times, Extra weekly resets 6 times, exclusive cosmetics 8 times.

Starting to see a pattern here or do we need to keep going past page 3? Or do you still think "they don't care about it"...

As for me, you are both wrong ... and at the same time, both are right ...

What you have listed makes a subscription more cost effective than playing without a subscription ... but these things alone have no enticing value (you need them because your character's progression system is tedious without them(by the way, people do not understand that games where the main money comes from the sale of cosmetics are built so that the basic costumization system is as inexpressive, ugly and miserable as possible compared to purchased cosmetics ...)).

But this is so, lyrics ... I have another question, how attractive these things by themselves will be to you if you remove unlimited money from the subscription and your main character will have 10 level 200 artifacts and alts have at least 1 level 200 artifact?

The cash cap is probably without a doubt the biggest subscription hook they have now that episode access is gone, ditching that along with episode access would be a massive gamble unless they've got something really big to replace those with and I mean it would have to be really big.

It would have to be something a player couldn't go without having access to every day of every month, every time they play that couldn't be purchased realistically outside of a subscription.

I think if we support character development avenues adequately, there's room to talk about additional customization options afterwards. I don't, however, think it's a good idea to do that in the other direction - because right now, we have a TON of defacto purchasable Style items, either in the Marketplace itself or through the Time Capsule system, and character development itself is still quite personally costly.

If having a Sub makes that less costly on a meaningful level, I can't say I have any opposition to adding Styles that exist in some "sub only" manner or fashion.

I am adamantly opposed to addressing or implementing a system like that without the other item being addressed comprehensively beforehand. If we're making the game exponentially more approachable for our free/premium players, then our Legendary members deserve something for literally filling the coffers.

I am also curious about this

Actually that's the point I've been trying to make to him off and on for 10 pages.

I literally listed his same 8 requests (meaning we all pretty much agree on those 8) and then explained these are what people would value but they're not enough on their own.

Proxy thinks it's some sort of scarcity binary though where if someone else gets what they want, he can't get what he wants; so he has to fight with anyone asking for more or different from what he wants. He doesn't think anything other than what he wants is "realistic". He doesn't believe we can have those 8 points and more. So his approach is to drown out replies from suggestions he sees as competing with his interests.

Emotive? You mean quoting back to you things you say you didn't say? Pointing out your condescension / 'splaining? So if I'm correct or definitively prove you wrong on a point you; you accuse me of being emotive? smh No, it's not emotive it's just being fact based and generally correct.

The forums are not representative of the larger population. As a "vet" you should know better. You could have 25 of your friends like every single post of yours and that is not what the Devs will decide on. It is [still] not a democracy or popularity contest.

If they look at their metrics and see that most of the population isn't engaging in the artifact system they're not going to look at that and say "Oh, hey, everyone will enjoy that and be enticed by those seals!" They're going to look at it and realize there's little interest in the system and ask themselves if they can improve engagement. It's not an enticement until they can get people excited about that feature. Noone is excited about artifacts. They see them as work.

After reading some of the good suggestions here...

Adding onto my original post above: Additional Membership Features.

1. put armouries on the base generator and offer a 2nd free armoury for members. Armouries turn off when rent isn't paid.
2. base generator rent (including mods) should be automatically on and "paid" for members.
3. In keeping with my initial above suggestions; lock costume/appearance customization behind membership also. members can freely change their look anytime. non-members are allowed 1 free change (at "save & exit") per month. additional changes cost X [12?] replays per use.

Footnote #1 (Daily Reward Box)
The daily member reward box would include everything normally found in the Vault on a run, but also include things like a seal of completion, preservation, stabilizer fragments, current episode currency, 5 source marks, a prom box, an unlocked current TC.

I wouldn't mind if each of these was set as a reward for a specific day like some games use streak and calendars for their daily -> 7day streak -> monthly rewards. It's lame but players see the rewards and motivated to log in. SO it would be Daily Vault loot + 1 of the above good rewards per day.

Footnote #2 This is what I'm thinking when I refer to "combined with other tinkering". On their own, this list is equivalent in monetary value to membership but not motivating enough (because not everyone cares about the same stuff) to subscribe or stay subbed.

First off @proxystar and @appollonia, I can see the passion that both of you have for the game certainly respect for the amount of time you have been with the game. All the suggestions and counter-arguments, i think, has been read and useful to the devs and anyone who took the time reading both of your responses. It's kinda getting snark and personal, I can read that your both trying to be patient and not get too heated, I hope we can all get back to the discussion civilly. I hope this doesn't offend you in anyway.

As to the members benefit discussion.

I think limiting the ability of premiums to change styles would not be a good idea. This will greatly offend premium members who will probably actively rebel on playing the game at all. This will certainly leave a bitter sense of betrayal for them. As have been suggested this thread is how to add to membership benefits to make it more appealing; I don't think this is a thread to suggest actions that will premium membership less appealing or limited.

In the same sense, I think access to unlimited cash is now THE only thing that is highly valued by all players. The cash cap has to remain to those unsubscribed, although I do think that raising it should be discussed.

So i think the subjectivity of value has been discussed when it comes to what should be added to subscribed members.

1 free stabilizer - although time capsules is a major resource of money for the company; it has been argued that we already get parts of a stabilizer for daily runs. Increasing that to a full stabilizer is not really an exaggerated request and not necessarily off the table. This is the MOST easily granted request that requires no other programming needed to do. It is simply a matter of economics to the company whether goodwill it will provide to members will offset the decrease (if its substantial) in the cash influx.

Increasing loyalty points and replay badges received - Again, some may argue the value of increasing this as a incentive to subscribe. I think any player of the game soon realizes that replay badges' value is constant in this game. Primarily, replay badges' highest value is replaying content and its rewards. That will not change. This does not include its use for purchasing feats or styles or skill points. As for loyalty points, regardless of what else is in the MP or whether a player will have purchased all the styles there or even interested. In the end Loyalty points can be used to buy more replay badges. So the value of increased loyalty points rides along the value of replay badges.

Seals of completion and preservations - although some players have levelled up artifacts up to 200 and may be content with what they have; artifacts, it seems, are here to stay. The game is continually adding artifacts into the game and I think eventually there will be artifacts introduced that will entice players to level it up. Leveling/upgrading items up to certain ranks are here to stay and are being increased: augments, artifacts and maybe pets or trinkets in the future. We have seen artifacts that introduce pets, increase damage, support and stats, help in content. I think the range of artifacts are pretty much untapped. It seems artifacts can now be used to introduce certain things into the game that we have long requested, I can certainly see the DEVs using the artifacts system to introduce more; i.e. pet customization, choice of pet or styles, unique powers added on the loadouts.
(I have to point out that I don't necessarily agree nor like that these are now behind artifacts and not just added to regular gameplay but this is what we have right now. ) So, I think having this as an added membership perk does add value to it.

In the end, I have to ask what exactly is the company asking for suggestions. Are they asking what should replace the monetary value of a DLC? The one that Subscribed members are losing? If that's the case, the answer is easy. Look at these 3 and adjust accordingly to offset the monetary value of the loss of the DLC.

Will that satisfy members? I don't know. I can't answer that, I can only speak for myself and my reaction and let's be honest. You don't care about How I will feel about it. It only matters how you (each paying member) will feel about the compensation.

If the question is how to "add value" to subscription? How to entice premium players to subscribe?
Then the list is also here in these pages. And it seems they will required more programming so I don't see them happening by July
while subscribed:
Unlock all styles.
Unlock all Skill points.
Shared artifacts.
Have each base with it's mods tied in with armories.


I know there's more suggested here i this thread; there are lots to choose from.
I'd write more but I feel this is already too much and probably won't be enough. I also am out of time.

How about being able to purchase other powers sets for your armories? For example, I'm munitions but I want to water heal. Save my munitions traits and then buy a respec token, switch to water and save that trait as well. Maybe have it so that we have up 4 powers avail at one time through our armories. (could not decide between 3 or 5, so I went in the middle)