Dev Discussion Better Membership

Discussion in 'Concluded' started by Mepps, Apr 29, 2021.

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  1. Proxystar #Perception

    No he said keep em comin because they're looking for ideas for game features outside of the membership benefit, despite making an attempt to temper any expectation in the preceding paragraph.
    • Like x 1
  2. Proxystar #Perception

    Yes, I am, actually

    An exclusive cosmetic is highly subjective, more than half the player could hate it, more than half could love it, but it's hit and miss, after obtaining that style it also has no ongoing benefit, you posess it and always will.

    On the other hand all players need artifacts and new ones that shift the meta are being released, seals are heavily requested, a quick scroll through this thread will tell you that without much effort

    Having seals would help with artifacts and augments, it would also help you with alts for the exact same thing, this holds a far more perpetual ongoing benefit that is entirely unreliant on ongoing development of styles simply to maintain the benefit on top of what already exists within existing development.
    • Like x 2
  3. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    Well, I guess that's where we'll have to disagree then. I view, and I think a lot of the excitement around episode launches, TC launches, booster bundles, etc. agrees with me, styles as being far superior in value to a percentage-based benefit.

    The reason I subscribe has never been for artifacts. I could honestly care less if they weren't in the game (prefer it actually). On the other hand, what keeps me coming back is those exclusive cosmetics from booster bundles.

    The whole reason I value having access to all of my cash is so I can buy the latest styles from the broker.

    That said, the devs obviously have access to information that can help them decide which is a bigger driver of interest, whether styles or artifact XP/seals.

    I respect your POV even if I don't share it, of course.
  4. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    No, all players don't. MP discounts and freebies are just as subjective. You're speaking from inside your bubble.

    Most players don't care about getting their arts to 200. This is a very specific niche of players that care about that that are in a minority, and perks like that won't land on players outside of that niche. They're a niche in the larger community of casual players who you don't know because you wouldn't play with that type of player.

    You're inserting that meaning into his statement. It's not inherently implied.

    Remember you wrote this:
    But you keep doing it.

    It's condescending to the adult professional Devs who you're quoting, to try to translate for them. As if they aren't capable of expressing themselves to the community without someone like yourself stepping in and 'splaining to the rest of us plebs what they mean. Not to mention to the players who can read and correctly interpret what they're being asked to provide.

    You're intentionally construing his statement to mean what *you* want it to mean. Panderus did not say that anything suggested was unrealistic, although I can understand someone trying to read between the lines getting that from what he wrote. But in the end, that's not what anyone said.

    Panderus and Mepps would have explicitly shut down the big ideas if they were out of scope. Instead, they said to keep them coming in one way or another. They said what they said.
    • Like x 1
  5. Proxystar #Perception

    Why is any of that stopping? No one said any of that is stopping.

    You say you like episode releases, TCs, Booster bundles, would not an increase in benefits like stabilizers, DBC, replays and the like allow you to further partake in those enjoyments to a greater extent than you would otherwise before opening your wallet even further?
    • Like x 1
  6. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    I'm merely explaining what I find valuable in the game. Seals of completion rank about 4/10 for me on importance. Episode access was 9/10 and cash access was 9/10.

    Let's put it this way, when I have DC, it never goes toward artifact-related items. If I'm looking at a chart and saying "sub or just play for free?" I'm never going to say, "ooh, more DC/seal of completion," this game is awesome!

    Edit: Another thing nagging at me is this: If I want to buy $15 of DC, I can just buy $15 of DC.
    • Like x 1
  7. Proxystar #Perception

    All players benefit from MP cash, replays, stabilizers, quarks, respecs, artifacts.

    That's not subjective no matter how much you assert that position it won't make it true.

    If a player doesn't level their artifacts to 200 that doesn't mean they're subjective it might mean that player is casual, but all that does is make that player ignorant to the objectively factual benefits that artifact would otherwise provide them.

    Artifacts aside your position would have readers here believe casual players never use DBC, never replay or ever open time capsules, those things are not subjective they're objectively used by all players.
  8. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    This is a point a lot of them aren't getting. A lot of people don't care about the perks they're proposing. Even if some players do care about their arts, there's a lot of people who don't mind paying for the seals and would rather have content of substance to balance out the type of content they're losing out on. That's me personally; my arts are leveled and I would benefit from free seals or discounts if I level more, but if I cared to level them I would do it with or without discounts anyhow. It's not a factor in my decision to sub/unsub.

    That's what you're not getting. All players may be able to use the perks you're suggesting but they don't have the same value to all players. It's absolutely subjective. Many players don't care about those discounts at all.

    I addressed this pages ago, but some of you think if you offer $15 worth of items or discounts as compensation, that's enough and people will be like "okay cool." Not everyone cares about those things so discounts on them are worthless will never get used. This is why feature-for-feature is important. Everyone uses the features.
    • Like x 1
  9. Proxystar #Perception

    Lets put an example package together then;

    Membership cost - $15

    1000DBC - $10
    350 replays - $10
    Umlimited cash access - $20
    1 stabilizer per day - $30
    1 seal of completion -$5
    Seals of preservation drop in game - value random
    Quark vendor discount 50% - significant value
    Quark vendor updated more quickly for members - time value
    Double Nth metal drops in game - significant value
    Artifacts - no experience penalty when feeding - significant value
    Mark relevancy - source mark relevancy window doubled
    Seasonal marks - members get a gifted 50 marks every seasonal
    Renown - members recieve 25% extra renown without booster
    Experience - members recieve 25% xp bonus when leveling
    Augments - members have higher chance of catalyst drops
    Promethium lockboxes - recieved all items not a choice
    Replays - members recieve a 10% discount on resetting instances
    Cash - members receive double cash from natural sources
    Broker - members get 50% off broker listing fees
    Cash - members cash is account bound
    Style sharing - unlocking styles is 50% off for members
    Feats - transferring feats is 50% off for members
    Gear - members have increased odds of purple gear drops
    Episodes - members recieve 1 week early exclusive access.

    This is all on top of other existing benefits

    Buy that for $15 a month or nah?
  10. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    I should ask first, is this what you're proposing for membership?
  11. Proxystar #Perception

    Ive take portions of the money making mechanisms and put them in membership to make it appealing, the figures and apportions are debatable but are a start.

    The idea here is to try and make an attractive package that is worth well more than the $15, it was more of a discussion prompt

    With respect I see this to be more credible than something along the lines of;

    "I want a batmobile mount and an invisible jet, I would also like to be able to change my power colors through an entire color spectrum and have a base full of sharks shooting laser beams from their eyeballs"

    "Oh and if you could make me a new batman style every month, possibly a superman, that'd be great".
  12. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    I sorted the stuff we had in common to the top. Notes in green.

    For $17.25 w exchange or $207/a it's a no from me. Even with top 8 of them would be a bare minimum but not enough to entice me to sub/resub.

    I think you should try to consider what most people want from the game. Instead of focusing on the dollar-for-dollar equivalence. New players don't know or care about seals of anything. It won't interest them.
    • Like x 1
  13. Proxystar #Perception

    Before I continue the discussion, where are you getting the $207 from and how are you calculating this? Or is this your personal currency exchange rate.

    Also I'm curious do you put a monetary value on the episode access and if so, how much and why?
  14. Inconforme+ Active Player

    what is needed to remove the body colision in the game?.
    Is very annoying and frustrating can't move when are surrounded by other players, in most cases can't move becouse pet's are in the middle, then we be stuck against some corner or somenthing like that, traped in the bank HQ, in the mail HQ, inside the clubs or comisaries in the portal to get out when are people away, etc.
    In all places who many players stay at the same time many others can't move
  15. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    How about this....let's agree to disagree. You have your opinion...I have mine. We do not agree, which is fine. I often agree with you and I know you've agreed with me in the past. Maybe the next one we'll match up on...this one we do not.

    The only part I'll further explain on is the 'removal' of benefits'. You actually said that subs want customizations more than the 'discounts and freebies'. I was just further solidifying that stance saying IF there were no freebies, did you think memberships would still sell based only on the customizations. You never said any would be removed...I just took your statement further to the extreme as an ultimate end.

    Happy gaming!
  16. Tdizzle1 New Player

    I would love if we could get monthly costume pieces. I.E styles like two full sets a year. Each month a new style piece with a feat achievement when we get the full set. You can even set a price in the marketplace on styles for non subscriber to purchase when the style is fully complete. That way everyone could benefit from it. An if they want to make it truly unique subscribers could get both an elite an non elite version of said style.
  17. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    17.25 is with local taxes. 207/a = per annum or annually. per year. I was so tired, I didn't even do the exchange rate.
  18. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    I was asking honest questions hoping for your answers. I wasn't trolling or otherwise being rhetorical :) I know you're posting in good faith so I wasn't trying to argue. I do believe there's value in us having these discussions openly because the devs do get some insight into where people are coming from and their perspectives. Even if we disagree. :)

    Fair enough. I didn't understand it. Sorry about that. :)
    • Like x 1
  19. Proxystar #Perception

    I'll just make my comments from literally top to bottom in terms of the ones worth discussing.
    • Replay Badges - I'm surprised you write that you don't care about replays, are you suggesting you're playing this game without the use of replays? replays are used to replay content, transfer feats and transfer styles, they could also be sold by a player and transferred into in game cash - I know you say you don't personally care about this item, but I would suggest you're heavily in a minority there.
    • Increased Nth Metal - If you receive permanent double Nth metal drops, it takes you literally half the time to level an artifact, the Nth metal is largely all account bound as well, this would make far easier to level artifacts on alts as well, an ongoing complaint within the general forum, without much search efforts you'd see this. You're honestly suggesting that receiving double drops only when you sub, wouldn't be a motivator? May I suggest this is more subjective and less widely objective.
    • Quark Vendor Discount - There's another way the developers can play this vendor, it acts as a second chance vendor for time capsule items, this provides paying members with a better shot at time capsule items they missed, it could also act as a more exclusive reward vendor and to any extent already does with more exclusive items that members have a cheaper shot at getting i.e. Diamond Mist Aura, I would again argue as well nonetheless that there are many completionists in this game that would stand to benefit from this and that your view is also a bit subjective.
    • Unlimited Cash - You suggest this isn't a reason to sub, with respect I would assert you're demonstrably incorrect, it's quite literally the existing reason why many people still do and it continuing as a perk would be the primary reason many would continue to do so, irrespective of any changes.
    • Stabilizers - At the moment we get 1 stabilizer every 3 days, so about 121 free stabilizers a year, increasing this to 1 per day would amount to 365 stabilizers a year. Between 15 March 2020 and 15 March 2021 there has been 3 primary time capsules and 2 resurgence capsules, the 365 stabilizers would probably barely make a discernible dent in this number of capsules given the odds and would push members towards the Quark Vendor benefit above anyway.
    • Artifacts,Seals, Catalysts, Augments - You seem quite subjectively dismissive of this as a benefit(s) in general, The general sentiment of your commentary leads to me to believe you either have artifacts very low yourself or only level the bare minimum and never move with the shifting meta; possibly I'd go as far as assuming you only play one character as well or certainly don't level artifacts to the point where you obtain the more serious benefits from them.The BiS artifacts continue at times to move, hence why there's a feeding mechanic in the first place, another benefit I mentioned about members not losing experience. Transferring the artifacts means the player needs more seals and more catalysts to then level that again, hence the added benefits of extra catalysts, seals and even increasing the relevancy window for source marks (to buy more catalysts). You suggest entirely that seals are worthless after artifacts are leveled, which probably exposes a little more of your casual play nature, otherwise you'd full well know why players continue to buy them despite having many artifacts leveled. The seals of preservation as well are used in DLC specific augments because the breakthroughs are not guaranteed there but are high enough to never justify a completion seal. Every alt run magnifies the expense and enhances the benefit a player would stand to gain from benefits, it's why so many requests are made in this thread for artifacts, nth metal and seals.
    • Seasonal Marks - rewarding seasonal marks is very appealing despite your immediate dismissal of it. You can use the items on vendors to turn straight in to cash and buy other things you want/need, more marks, more rewards, more money. In turn as well seasonals tend to have some of the better, if not the outright most desirable base items for base builders, I would hazard a guess there would be many players interested here.
    There's a few other things I could probably comment on but its generally because you've subjectively dismissed them as having no value, that subjective view I believe stems from what is clearly a more casual approach to playing the game in general, you appear to have little interest in features of the game that are more advanced, no intended offense, or even for example the way you outright dismissed the seasonal marks feature, seemingly not understanding the ability to economically benefit there and in a similar nature actually to you probably not entirely seeing the benefit of increasing replay badges.

    As one example the Jolly Beards at Christmas can sell for 100mil+ within the US server economy, the fact you seem to miss when a gift of 50 seasonal marks would literally have provided you with either more seasonal items or a conversion to 200mil+ in game, yet you dismiss it straight out of hand as worthless ;)

    I would assert that most of the benefits I've listed above although never being able to entirely replace DLC access as a perpetual perk would certainly provide players with a tangible ongoing benefit, enhancing their experience and even moreso doing so with those choosing to play multiple characters.

    The point being made as well is that a lot of the benefits even I listed are intertwined they form a web where they flow in to each other, some might subjectively be worth less but when combined they can form into a far better and more appealing package.

    This is certainly not an exhaustive discussion point I've outlined here, but again, I would respectfully suggest it's probably a darn sight better than coming in here and saying "hey can I change my green lantern in to a pink lantern"...
  20. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    So...now that you understand it, do you believe that if membership ONLY got us styles...no 'freebies or discounts' do you think membership would still be a viable thing? I'm asking cause I want to know, not to get a rise out of you...Personally I don't think it would, unless those customizations were more than cosmetics. If they provided some advantage, either in fighting, or game experience (outside of your own customization enjoyment) that is. Of course, if they are more than cosmetics and only available to members, the old 'it's Pay2Win' discussion rears it's ugly head again.
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