Dev Discussion Better Membership

Discussion in 'Concluded' started by Mepps, Apr 29, 2021.

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  1. NeoSelkie Active Player

    Artifact leveling bonuses have been mentioned a couple times in this thread and I wanted to put my two cents in on this aspect.

    I've seen a lot of mentions of seals or more artifact xp, and the difficulty of having alts with artifacts. While these suggestions would definitely make artifact leveling easier, it would only slightly reduce the burden alts have become with the artifact system. In addition, these benefits would not really scale as well with more alts.

    My suggestion for this matter would be to introduce a membership tied system that would reduce the burden of artifacts leveling on an alt. There are many different ways this could be done with varying amounts of development needed.

    1.
    One potential system would be implementing something modeled on OP items. Have 0 feat point feats for every artifact at r200, which gives a xp bonus (I would suggest at least double) when leveling that artifact. In a perfect world this would also reduce the catalysts needed, but I think that would be difficult and time consuming to implement from a development standpoint.The downside with this system is that it does not necessarily promote long term game membership. Someone could save up nth metal and then subscribe for a single month to use the benefit. In addition, someone could game the system by waiting until double nth metal week to feed nth metal into a duplicate of an artifact they have a r200, then feed it into a new art.

    2.
    Another system would be the introduction of a new inventory tab solely for artifacts that acted as a shared bank for your account. This would mean you would only need to level an artifact once, and then you could use it on all of your characters. This system does have the downside in that it would probably require more engineering time to implement, especially with how artifacts are currently equipped and how they exist as physical items in our inventory or equipped. For this reason this system would need to make artifacts act more like account shared augments.

    3.
    An alternative to system 1, would be implementing a system where you could buy over artifacts, similar to how you can currently buy over styles. I think the best way this could be implemented with existing technology would be to introduce a vendor/dispenser that sells feat locked artifacts at r200. The feat would be earned at r200 which you could then buy over to alts and enable you to then get that artifact at r200. As to how this system could be linked to membership, you could make this system free or discounted for members. This system would share some downsides of both of the prior systems. It would encourage only subbing for a month to use the benefit for free, and would need to have some work done on how to compensate those who have already spent money on artifacts on there alts. I would argue that this system would probably require the least amount of development work due to feats tied to artifact leveling already existing, and locking vendor items behind feats already existing.
    One important problem with this system is that someone could repeatably buy the artifact from the vendor to feed into another artifact. This problem is easy to solve though, as you could make it so you are only able to buy each r200 artifact from the vendor once, and only if you do not have that artifact on that character. The once limit would have to exist since people could use the item recovery system to get multiples. The artifact presence on that character would need to exist to prevent the main character from buying it again. The only thing with this filter is that it may confuse some people if they have a r0 artifact that prevents them from buying an art, that they would need to delete.

    Overall I think the best system would probably be system 3. It would be the easiest to implement from a development standpoint, would provide a great benefit to members, and would make high level alts feasible again. The actual cost of artifact transfer and whether the system would be fully limited to members could also easily be modified to whatever is needed.

    I can definitely say an argument could be made against these systems from a game monetization standpoint. Specifically, that it would drastically reduce the money that could be earned from players leveling artifacts on alts. I am not able to give a good answer on this without knowing the actual revenue generated from players leveling artifacts on alts. A counterpoint could be made to this argument however, that enabling players to more easily maintain their alts can provide a boost in revenue for existing systems such as the purchasing of replays to run content or buy over feats. A non-monetary benefit to the game would also be players having more reason to continue playing once fully geared on their main character, and would spend more time in the game since they would want to level/play their alt characters more.

    I think the biggest challenge with any system introduced to make artifacts on alts easier is figuring out how to deal and compensate players who already have duplicates of artifacts between characters. Due to the time and monetary investment that is tied to artifacts currently, the compensation would have to be worth it. While introducing such a system might make some angry due to the time/monetary investment they have put into their alts I would argue that some kind of system to make getting artifacts easier on alts would be beneficial to the games health in the long run. I know a lot of people who simply gave up trying to keep alts leveled or active with content due to the large investment artifacts would require. Yes, artifacts are not required, but that doesn't change how much harder they made maintaining high competence alts. I don't speak for everyone, but at least for me my alts have become glorified catalyst feeding machines for my main. They run dailies/weeklies and just transfer the rewards over.
    • Like x 4
  2. MsTickle Fate Devoted Player

    Speaking as someone with a Lifetime membership, I hope not.

    The idea here should be to reward people for subscribing, not punishing those who do not subscribe.

    I can't think of a better way to drive away players than to take away their existing rewards and say "hey, now you can pay $ for them! Isn't that great?!"

    That would be kinda nuts, actually. Let's not do that.

    On another point that I feel less strongly about, I don't care for the idea of making seasonal rewards available at all times. A little patience brings the next seasonal soon enough. And making the vendors available without a way to earn the seasonal marks would be largely pointless. But making all seasonal vendors available at all times while making all seasonal events ongoing would destroy the entire "seasonal" idea entirely. Literally.

    I don't see that helping the game more than hurting it, but I don't insist my preference is the only valid preference as regards seasonals.

    Digressively, I'm very glad to see that, finally, weekly bonuses of some sort are now a permanent feature, since I was the person who proposed that way back with the very first special weeks: why not make every week a special week with extra rewards of some sort? What's the downside? And there are more than enough types of rewards to keep such weeks varied, I said.

    Why it took three years for the devs to agree with my arguments, I dunno, but I welcome their adoption, however belated. Thank you, DCUO! (And Mepps and whomever else.)

    Has thought been given to gifting all subscribers with a free Unicorn trink-- oh, wait, never mind.
    • Like x 3
  3. MsTickle Fate Devoted Player

    Sure they do. They may not be (and aren't) sufficient, but that doesn't make them bad ideas. Who doesn't like free useful stuff?

    Arguing that there should be more benefits than those is perfectly reasonable, but there's no good reason to exclude "more free stuff" as part of the new benefits. There just isn't.

    Personally, I couldn't care less about how much "effort" anyone puts into brainstorming ideas for new benefits. I care about the results.

    Your mileage, as we used to say, may vary.
    • Like x 3
  4. MsTickle Fate Devoted Player

    I would point out that styles are only "free" -- which is a funny way to refer to things you mostly have to earn with actual time, energy, and effort, but never mind -- on the toons that earn them. Other people in this thread are asking for styles to be made free for all your toons at once. THAT would be "free styles."

    But at present, DCUO lets you earn styles for your characters, and if you want to pay for your other toons to have access to those styles with a few replay badges, you can have them.

    This is a system that has worked for ten years. Don't fix what ain't broke. Add, don't take away.
    • Like x 2
  5. Shark Dental Devoted Player


    Correlation doesn't imply causation. :D
    • Like x 1
  6. Kimone Luthor Genetech Clone

    In order of occurrence:
    1. We DO give away Styles, and always have. That's a major selling point, sure, but it's also something that was built in from the ground up. Taking Styles away isn't a "trade" for free episodes, it's simultaneously avoiding the topic of coming up with something meaningful for the people who DO subscribe and alienating the part-timers who do just play at the Premium level by removing a major part of the experience: Character Customization.

      Also...


    2. Style collection as a Premium-tier (or below) player is already essentially a "pay in" transaction on a LOT of levels, since there is functionally no Broker interactivity without Legendary. This includes Time Capsule Styles, Booster Bundle Styles, Quark Vendor Styles, and a bunch of other stuff that you either pay actual, real money for, or grind at a snail's pace to eventually obtain. So there's already a very real Style-based transactionality occuring in the game.

      So in that instance they're already paying in for whatever Styles outside of basic Vendor Styles they get; in addition to the fact that Vendor Equipment is directly associated with new Styles, and I personally would like to be able to continue collecting them that way - as opposed to HAVING to buy a special "members only" Gear set on TOP of whatever is on the Vendor now.
    Top to bottom, this entire suggestion seems like a really, really unpleasant gatekeeping mechanism. Like it's designed to keep "those people" on the other side of a fence that doesn't currently, nor did it ever, exist - and to cover that intention, you're defending it as a value add when it's not.

    I don't want MY membership benefits to be reduced on one level in exchange for access to a thing that I've already been getting.

    It would be like running a burger joint offering free fries, then telling someone that a Value Meal is still somehow worth the same amount of money because you're forbidding people who just want the burger from having condiments on it from now on; then misrepresenting napkins and straws as a value add to the price of the meal. in order to avoid coming up with something meaningful or just changing the price instead.

    Taking styles away from Free/Premium members DOES NOT INCREASE my actual benefit as a subscribing Legendary member; removing one thing that I do CURRENTLY get and then telling me something that I've ALWAYS gotten is somehow a "value add" by taking it away from someone else is complete, utter ********.

    Do better.
    • Like x 4
  7. L T Devoted Player

    "Free" as in "doesn't cost money". And, respectfully, you are incorrect. Most styles are not currently free. You must either subscribe or else purchase the Episode to earn the gear that goes with them. Some, but not all, styles are free as long as the Event version of the episode is active.

    Going forward, they will all be truly free. Most MMO games do not give away cool styles for free-- they heavily monetize them.

    For some definitions of "ain't broke" maybe. DCUO's profit model is currently Time Capsule feats, Artifact Leveling, and making the non-subscriber experience broken and annoying. I would point out that people have, here on these forums and elsewhere, complained loudly about these methods of revenue.

    I can respect that sentiment. I went a little outside the box here in terms of "what would make membership worth it".
    • Like x 1
  8. KneelBeforeZodd Dedicated Player

    Every style piece is paid with replay badges, time capsule sales, booster bundle sales or source mark sales. Just because the player is premium doesnt mean he wont spend replays to get the latest gear or buy bundles, even free players might get resets from friends to get the latest gear, so its all monetized, just not directly.
    Plus its not adding anything to membership, just making everyones life worse
    • Like x 2
  9. TKMcClone Steadfast Player

    I mentioned something similar to L T earlier in the thread (separate gear from styles). But, in reading your post I sort of get your point.

    However, going forward, with new episodes, member exclusive styles are a potential selling point. The way I see it working is the style(s) wouldn't include skill points. The player would need to be subbed at episode launch and the style(s) would disappear after launch. Perhaps a Members only Episode Box (non-rng) that includes style items, crafting stuff, replays or other bonus items. Episode launches need to be important to members.

    My thinking on this comes from things like OG nimbus auras from booster bundles and excitement around things that are exclusive time stamps for the game.
    • Like x 1
  10. Daposhon New Player

    I would like for the Devs to consider the following for Legendary Members:

    1. Keep the money cap for Non-Legendary Members
    2. Only Legendary Members can make Leagues
    3. Legendary Members should be able to Time Capsules like we open Promethium Lockboxes
    4. Legendary Members should be able to convert cash into prestige for the League Hall
    5. Legendary Members should be able to get 7 stabilizers or 3 and a half stabilizers (every two days get 7) everyday so when it’s time for Resurgence Capsule we can open more.
    6. Exclusive Account Bound Gifts (Daily, Weekly, Or Monthly) Based On Legendary Status
    7. Double XP for Artifacts & Augments Once A Month
    8. Exclusive Raids & Instances for Legendary Members who enjoy difficult content as oppose to Animal Crossing easiness
    9. Teleporter for all old raiders and alerts for Legendary Members to get old feats etc
    10. Legendary Members had direct access to elite gear instead of getting renown (Bypass Renown)
    11. Teleporter for Legendary Members for contest on best looks etc
    12. Weekly or Monthly Seals Of Completion
    13. Increased Replay Badges
  11. Proxystar #Perception

    I appreciate your optimism, we'll see what that is in time I guess :)

    lol :D You don't think the avg player sees perpetual value in replay badges, nth metal, seals, respecs, stabilizers? I mean people in this very thread have been saying more stabilizers, more seals, more nt metal, providing more DBC, provides exactly that, does it not?

    Some people also asked for cheaper style sharing, more DBC and more replays actually achieves that also.

    Agreed.
    • Like x 1
  12. Proxystar #Perception

    No problem, I probably could've mentioned it in an earlier comment also. might've saved some time :D

    I do agree that the repair bill issue is exacerbated by a progression inflation over 10 years and I agree there are solutions to that outside of raising the cash cap that can address that problem more specifically :)
    • Like x 1
  13. Kimone Luthor Genetech Clone


    I also don't want more stuff "just to have it"; I didn't chase the OG auras the first time around because I didn't care then and I don't care now. The idea of incentivizing FOMO through Styles strikes the same notes that owning a Prada Bag does; I don't own one now, and it wouldn't change my opinion if suddenly other people were simply not allowed to have it. Well, it would but it would be severely negatively.

    There's already enough of that "looking down your nose" crap in the community and this sort of thing will only add to that toxicity.
    • Like x 2
  14. K!G New Player

    For a New Player getting rid of the money limit for free players would be cool but as someone that has watched someone else play a game that offer an alternate to pay and play (the fullness of the game) from a game I for some reason don't like (Fortnite) it feels a little underwhelming, so my suggestion is a spinoff of another.

    Memberships have levels
    Level 3 for full membership players (no real difference - full access with extra benefits)
    Level 2 for premium players that spend $5 or More (no real difference - price reductions with game money and real money excluding subscription [seasonal coupons outside game and discounts inside game])
    Level 1 for free players (no difference)
    and a + that can be obtained in game for Level 1 & Level 2 that gives access to things like the lair system and is purchased with an extra in game currency (that can be used to buy lair stuff [like armoury]) that can be earned in game (through feats, events, time online, etc. [maybe making it look like the [COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)]DC Comics JLA Limited Edition Collectable Coin Advent Calendar [/COLOR]at least the one side that shows JLA]) or converted from Daybreak Cash (with a changing exchange rate).
  15. TKMcClone Steadfast Player

    Even with alts most players will only use a tiny number of the available style pieces, yet they still seem to be a major part of the reward system. I'm sure that I'm not the only one who has created a new toon because they liked a new style. I get the whole prada bag angle that's just people being people, it could be about an aura, but it's much worse if the reward is pay to win. Member Style rewards is just an idea. This thread is for ideas.
  16. Proxystar #Perception

    What happens if the developers decide they can no longer be bothered putting the resources in to "member styles"?

    The idea involves them taking rewards already given in game and using them solely for members, when the development team already seems hard pressed in terms of time and resources how is it expected there will be time for something on top of what seems to already be a struggle to create? Short of them deciding to employ more devs it seems.
    • Like x 1
  17. myandria Item Storage

    True, there are other perks in the membership that are valuable; however, how much is having all access to in-game cash truly worth? I think it is worth more than 5 dollars in real money, as most games have it set at the subscription level. With the exception of the 5 dollar stipend and the 10% member discount in the Marketplace, all other membership perks can be purchased a-la-carte by free and premium players and they can get a couple of free stabilizers from the duo event, too. That is why I would not subscribe if the cash cap was removed; I could buy as I go and not commit to a subscription. But, to your point, we do not know what the devs have in mind for revamping the Membership perks; for that, I will wait and see what happens.
  18. TKMcClone Steadfast Player

    Seems like you're letting them off the hook easy? Membership has always been based on regular access to new content. Now that new content is free there is no longer an obligated to create more episodes on a schedule. I'd be more concerned about that than adding a members only episode box with a unique style. Some people would be happy to have more of existing utility items like seals. I think that getting new things should be what drives people to legendary.
  19. Lycan Nightshade Dedicated Player

    im hoping that the new version of membership enhances my game as oppose to really completing it.......idk if that will ever actually happen but il find out.....

    would be nice if
    -we as members can collect any gift on all toons (like those flash day of batman day tshirts cuz guess what im not spending replays on these things)
    -members can also get 1 free reroll per whatever... an example here is say you crack a tc, waist some crappy collection piece and an emblem you dont need is the choose, we could use our free reroll and end up with different choices..
    -id really like to put my bases somewhere new, atlantis, earth 3, heck even an apartment off Titans Tower.(while this would start as a membership perk this could be monitiezed and put in the MP)
    • Like x 1
  20. Proxystar #Perception

    I'm being realistic, I'd rather have things I can have now with minimal development requirements because I'm not prepared to accept an increase to membership benefits that 6 months from now disappear yet again, because they can no longer be bothered or don't have the resources available to continue with providing the benefit.
    • Like x 2
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