No more Wonderverse Elite Type Raids please ..Not P.U.G friendly

I'm in a certain group of players that have not finished the Elite Raid yet.... Before you Elite Big league players go in on me...
Hear me out. I understand the mechanics of this raid. The thing that gets players like me about this raid is that the all at the same time mechanics. On their own they are fine.. but how the game bombards the team all at once and give you no chance to pick downed players up or move out of the way to defend yourself is dirty.... Look I understand that Elite players and leagues "Love the Challenges" I do too. And I know that this time around the "Devs" made this for y'all. But this raid was not P.U.G friendly at all. Since the mechanics start off fine on the first 3 attempts then go quirky and down right "Cheap" as you keep trying..is not what I think would not qualify as "Good" game design. It makes no sense that if a team goes down and has to restart the boss fight the mechanics get Cheaper and overwhelming on taking out the team.
Example..after the 3rd attempt Grail's box 1 shots while the Maniac and any off the adds are able to one shot you being out in the crowd killing team mates and multiples at the same time.. On top of that the Bracers are on and no room to move because the Spears are all over the room. And you can't pick up because the ads or boss zones in on you and kills you. And don't get me started on Multiple Team Mates get "Mind Controlled" all at the same time ( like 3-4) while your taking damage trying to Weapon tap them but it takes to long cause there are only a couple of you able to hit the same team mate out of it. Ads are out ,the Spears are everywhere, red pools everywhere sucking you in.Grail is throwing her Axe, or Omega beam at you, her box is zapping life from you,You have the arrow on you, a team mate is down and you have to pick them up but can't cause a spinner is on top of them, all at the same time SMH lol..Make stuff hit harder is fine but give us room or the ability to make multiple adjustments. Also teams right now are having to resort to cowering to right bottom corner of the room map towards the end to survive and finish Grail cause guess what there's no sp
Spinners or pools there. Teams shouldn't have to resort to that, Us having to do that is also "Cheap".. Look the intent was to just frustrate I get it... But I'd appreciate timing mechanics in the future like using an orbital at a specific time to break through to the next damage level or even a random button tap like X, O, , ..from a random team mate to get a "Key" hit on the boss at a "Key" moment to keep the boss dying. I'm tired of all at the same time cheap mechanics and no chance of completion tactics and justifying as good difficulty design. Also the game always using the floor real estate as weapon change that up please. Make players dodge stuff and let us use the floor freely again. Its fun to use dodges or heights to climbing things.
It makes no sense that I've played with really good teams and can't finish raids like this because the game just decides to throw everything at the players at the same time with "No" chance of completion and call that a good design. Raids like this excludes the player base that are good enough to play in these raids but don't have the perfect team make ups, luck, the right "Powers" or know the dirty exploits to beat them cause they don't use discords or have the Op'd Arts or even a hacker. This makes us waste time getting to the boss so we'll just disband cause the raid has decided to get cheap on us. Make the design hard but not Cheap. I don't mind the marathon of battle but if the all at the same time mechanics make it unbeatable .. Multiples mechanics can be ok but not if the scenarios it presents make it unbeatable its just plain wrong.
And to the players that want these type of raid mechanics to continue .. I get it you've got your Elite Gear and it puts you in exclusive club.. But the cheap mechanics have got go.. Im sorry.

Overlapping mechanics has always been a thing. My beef with that raid is the no die feats, which are almost (but not quite) an incentive for cheats. They are so difficult that I would say 90%+ of the people who have them all grouped with a speed hacker, which the devs are demonstrably fine with, because taking action against people who group with speedhackers is something they do not do, even when they are presented with proof.

Which is the issue imo, on 1 hand if you make too easy you have certain people complaining that it is too easy for elite, on the other hand if you have it like it is currently you run into issues where ppl resort to speed hackers to get their feats.

There needs to be a in between / sweet spot. Elite shouldnt be a push over otherwise it's not really elite, but at the same time it should also be doable with 1-3 wipes if all have their augs max, decent SP, knowledge of raid mechanics and decent arts.

You shouldnt struggle every time you go into it, it should be like doing a reg raid, learn mechanics everything from there is smooth sailing.

I don’t mind elite being really, really hard. I do mind that the cheats go unpunished.

Remember LPvE week? People grouped with speed hackers to get those feats with the justification that they “had a daughter” and other such nonsense. Something being hard doesn’t justify cheating. The problem isn’t the difficulty, it is the cheats and the devs ignoring the cheats. The rest of us are fools.

If the cheaters were punished (bare minimum of having their ill-gotten gains taken away) the people who rely on them to get to max CR would quit the game while others might start to come back. Challenging elite raids are good, but challenges added specifically to counter speed hackers and other cheaters (exploit users) might not be as needed.

Hey devs, one team finished it one time and one time only on the xbox server yet 150+ players on server have max CR/elite gear. i guess its too much to ban youre entire community, eh? U made the map glitch, now its time to clean it up. that raid is near impossible for any team that doesnt opperate with Navy SEAL execution, precision, and communication. I only know a handful of people who are even capable.

That's always how elite raids have been (or at least the good ones), you shouldn't be able to pug elite with a group of random people who are average players and beat it no problem. I'm not saying it should be a raid only for the top 32 players, but it shouldn't be beatable by every random who has no idea of how to play the game properly but can do decent 12345 damage by paying for quick artifacts and augments boost.

If you can't beat elite raids that are being finished by a decent number of players (The only exceptions I can remember of elite raids that weren't beatable by a good chunk of players are zoo elite and spindrift station for a little time bc of last boss, edit: and DWFe and UMe ofc) after almost 2 months since their release, probably they are not for you, and not saying in a way to disqualify your skills, but elite is designed to target a small % of players.

ZooE was easy, sure it was chaotic but it wasnt elite worthy.

I bet my 2 cents most of the cheaters are cheat engine abusers, bc I never heard of paid hacks for this game. DCUO is probably the only game I know from a big company that doesn't block cheat engine, if it did most of the problems would be solved.

ZooE was unbeatable for almost a month AFAIK

That's because along with the entire Riddled with Crime Episode, Zoo Elite was one of the buggiest and glitched raids DCUO has ever released in the history of the game.

First of all, I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but the boss fight doesn't change based on how long you've been in there or what number attempt you're on.

I agree that the raid is not very pug friendly. The raid itself is far from impossible, but when you get a group from LFG, there's a very good chance that most of them don't know as much as think they do about the mechanics of the raid or aren't as good as they think they are.

Personally, I think this is what an elite raid should be in terms of difficulty. Even after becoming comfortable with the mechanics, it's still a challenge for the top players. If they made it any easier, it might be too easy. (While I think the difficulty is good, I agree with you that the specific mechanics could be better. I'm no fan of the spinning hammers that take up all the floor space.) But like someone else mentioned, overlapping mechanics has always been a thing and there are ways to handle all of the scenarios you mentioned.

The real problem is the effect that the introduction of elite raids has had on regular raids. Ever since they began releasing two versions of each raid, regular raids have become mind-numbingly easy. It's as if they design the elite raid first and then make the regular version by removing the hardest mechanic from elite and tuning everything else down to the point where you can literally ignore mechanics. If FGS reg can be done without a tank, I think that's a clue that the raid might be too easy.

This problem doesn't so much affect elite players because they have elite. It affects those who find reg too easy that it's not fun, so they go and seek a challenge in elite, but then find that too hard and ask for it to be made easier. I feel for the people who fit this description, but elite raids should not be made easier; regular raids should be made harder (I'm using a comparative term here, I'm not saying reg raids should be hard).

Just to clarify my point, let's say, hypothetically, that DCUO released 5 versions of every raid: Practice, Easy, Medium, Hard, and Crushing. The current Event versions of raids would be Practice; the current regular versions we have would be Easy; and the current elite raids would be Hard. The problem is there are no medium difficulty raids anymore which is the level of difficulty that would be most suitable for the majority of the player base. If you look back at the raids we had before elite versions were a thing, most of them had a respectable level of difficulty. You had to actually do mechanics but any decent pug group could get through it. Today, mechanics in regular raids are literally ignorable.

You’re clearly doing very different normal raids to me. Some bosses are as you say, but others definitely not, for every Grail there’s a Zeus, for every Brimstone there’s an Oracle Bot, for every JLD raid there was two Metal raids. So on and on. Normal raids are fine. Fractured God Sphere elite is fine. You either want a challenge or you don’t.

I don't think it's that binary. An average player might have no interest in the level of difficulty many elite players enjoy, but that doesn't mean they don't want any challenge whatsoever.

My take from tons an tons of attempts Is theres too much at once at times an thats what wipes groups. There should never be a scenario where 1/2 the group is u able to be picked up. Last nite i ran it and the tank and healer were both mind controlled and at the same time, the troll and 2 dps’s got 1-shot.
This left just 3 dps’s alive (myself an 2 others). Issue was when this happened, grail proceeded to spawn the spinning axes AND red pools all of which were rite on top of all down allies. So no one could be picked up. We had her at 1/4 health too so we were doing what was needed. We were getting it done then because of poor design wiped.
What 1-shotted was her deflection. The shield icon disappeared and while i was trying to break tank an heal out, thr troll an dps’s went to work an immediately 1-shotted themselves with no way to even know not to attack yet.

Thats not “a challenge” thats cheap, frustrating, and impossible.
And something similar seems to aways happen. Before that wipe i watched as tank and healer were randomly 1-shotted somehow (no one ever did fig out what happened an when it happened, the gam decided best this was for them to be flung (while dead with cogs) into the spinning axes. 2 of us shielded an troll popped a group shield an game then decided that we couldnt get close enough to pick em up. When we got close enough we wouod be flung.
Its just cheap, its not challenging its cheap.

If it wasnt so much at once then it’d be a fun challenge but i been watching this over and over in every attempt and i dont understand why anyone thinks this is good?

I don’t worry about it anymore. I play to the point where the devs don’t want me to spend money any longer, and I stop spending money. That’s not my problem; it’s their’s.

If there’s nothing to replay on FGSe, then I don’t replay. Pretty simple.

Successful pugging doesn’t come without luck. If it takes two months or even longer of using LFG to be apart of a group that finally beats a current elite raid, don’t blame the player. It is a group effort after all.

I pug everything, and at some point, I just made peace with the fact I wasn’t going to put up with the frustration of elite raids anymore, and I’ve been much happier and less stressed out for it (Atlantis was my last). I do miss the skill points, but whatever, at 500+ I’m fine.

Strong point. I've cleared it once completely and then a half the following week. I've spent no replays on elite so far. Not normal for me. But all I have left to do is get renown/ elite gear so I keep trying.
As for comments about seemingly random things killing people, have witnessed/ been done in by a few. Not even 30mins ago, 1 shotted by what I can only assume was the maniac but the words for adds inbound didn't come up till I was down. Then maybe 6 other people had said they didn't have a clue what killed them. Now maybe 2 or 3 of them weren't paying, maybe even 5, but I'd doubt all 6. Especially when I know a few have done this before/ already proved in a few attempts they know what they're doing

FGSe can be more pug friendly without changing anything about it. What needs to change is the regular raid. It should better prepare randoms for the elite version. It doesn’t have all the mechanics the elite raid has. This is why there’s different strategies for beating reg Zeus and elite Zeus. In FGSr, everyone huddles in the middle, but spreads out between pillars in FGSe. But that’s not my point. That’s just an example.
If the regular raid had the same elite mechanics, then randoms can have ample opportunity to practice the way they should play in the elite version.