Time for another. Again.

What’s going to happen with PVP at this point. Are we just going to continue to throw it back further down the line? Are we just going to continue with the stupid TC and useless styles and materials? I’m ready to just delete the game and just really move on. Pve is absolutely boring, I got almost every feat done except the useless TC styles because i refuse to spend money on something that isn’t a guaranteed item and I’m not sitting at the broker for 45 minutes trying to flip things to pay 5bill for 2 items. I got my alts at 306 and main at 308 with almost every pve feat done. I want to actually play pvp and as soon I get into a match I remember why i don’t do it no more. The fact I played the game for 9 years and spent countless thousands upon thousands to support the game and they can’t even give us a lousy fix for pvp and just take the money and run with it at this point. PvE is literally just rebased areas and raids. The open world missions are literally the same in different areas and different skin textures added. Nothing about it is fun anymore. I’m quite bored with this game and quite frankly I’m not returning. And no you can’t get my stuff. Rip to this game it was good run for me. Sad to see the way the game ended up when it had the best combat system for pvp and the pve.

What is it that you would like for them to do to fix PvP?

I am pretty sure that what ever you suggest it probably will be accepted by some, if implemented it will work for the same group, but would still be treated like it's broken by a large portion of the population.

Before anyone say it is not profitable, remember Last Laugh DLC.

They can easily do a PvP DLC and throw in a weapon like whips or whatever.

So what are you actually asking for them to fix that you see is wrong with PvP?

I suggested multiple things, multiple times and the response from Mepps is “We don’t have any pvp plans at this time.” On their live stream months ago they said “no one pvps anyways”. Is that how you run a company by telling your player base they don’t care pretty much about you and the people who like pvp? I’ve made numerous posts on what needed to be fixed as did many others who got ignored. It’s okay though I see where the pvp community stands and I’m just going to move on. I already deleted the game and cancelled my sub there’s no point to play a game that doesn’t even bother to fix things that are broken.

I don't think that is their intent, your response is why they came to be that way.

Just read what you wrote, but think about the way it comes off.

It doesn't sound constructive and really is why they have such a hard time doing anything with PvP.

I am not against what you are saying, true people have said things, but just as I asked you to say what is wrong, the answer still sounds like everything or I said it before or they don't listen.

Threats or leaving or just out right being frustrated doesn't help when making a strong case for what is wrong.

The reason it is like it is now is because people complained and we got what we have now.

People complained about being griefed, they complained about being left behind, they complained about HT mods, trinkets, orbital strikes, they complained about abilities, the various trinkets like omac trinkets.

All those things including sodas.

Players felt like people cheated or have advantages beyond skill.

We now have most of the things people complained about gone and now people don't run PvP.

My suggestion would be to find common ground, find agreement and not with just people who do want to only play PvP, but be more open to be more inclusive.

They need to return rock, paper, scissors.

Bring back the progression for PvP.

None of it will help though because, like PVE, not everyone has skills enough to where they can see value in PvP being they will suffer loss after loss, where more people who do take time to work on their skills and actually take PvP serious regardless of what the next person does.

I Happen to believe that it is broken because they took away so much from us and put everyone on an even playing field and forgot that it should be about the journey to be better or the adventure to get stronger by eliminating the need to gear up or work on stats and actually put in work to compete with those who do run PvP to buy 1 piece of gear to get stronger and not rely on skill alone, without gear or stats, to progress.

PVE is on the same track it's just easier.

I’ve tried the nice way of asking for things. That was their response on them telling me they have no plans to fix it or even talk about it anymore. A company making all this money and it goes to styles and rehashed content.... Also the reason for the complains on the HT mods were the sole factor you needed to do PVE to take the Marks to power the generator and needed to pay for the DLC to use the base mods and orbitals and such. That’s why there was such a high complaint about it because if you were strictly pvp and didn’t buy dlcs you wouldn’t have those things and you’re at a disadvantage. They literally made powers spamable and unblockable due to Pve. Weapons are at their weakest in pvp, blue immunities no longer work how they were intended to do. You have weapons that ignore counters, you have certain powers that are just godly in pvp that you can’t even do anything to them even if you are the better player it takes forever to kill healers and tanks. It’s a complete joke and there’s much more I made serval posts speaking on it and much others have as well even with videos they didn’t bother fixing any of it. For the most part powers have been generally good in pvp during the early years even with them being broken everyone was still on even grounds due to blues and counters actually working you couldn’t just rely on your power unless the said power was broken or had an exploit going on. It shouldn’t be my problem if someone isn’t as good as me in pvp. I get killed a lot on cod by better players but that’s the reason why you continue to play and get better

The thing is, it becomes your problem when others don't queue for PvP because they are so use to everything being the opposite for them of you.

Most of the problems you mentioned is due to the game they built.

They have a hard time separating PVE from PvP when it comes to abilities and weapons.

Just think about it, weapons not performing right and think about how weapons perform on both sides.

Powers early on were much different, for 1 trolls could put a hurting on healers abilities to heal, healers had their abilities against tanks.

All that changed to accommodate the disadvantage that the skilled had over the unskilled.

There was a disadvantage when it came to gear as well as HT.

There was more than enough when it came to other things as well.

I mentioned Last Laugh, if a player didn't have the DLC or subbed they were left out of that too.

I say all that because they eliminated the advantages and look where we are.

You made a point of saying you ended your subscription, which means you did have access to the same thing that others did.

I get that you are championing for a newer player who just joined the game.

The problem is, to advance in this game you do have to invest in your character to get better, it more or less killed PvP when they took that away because it took away the progression and voided basically the argument to learn to get better.

Most will say for this game skill is king, but having gear set a purpose, they took that away in order to accommodate the appeal that everyone should have access whether they invest or not.

It became a handout, in order to complete the circle abilities also needed adjustment, but as I said before it's tied to PVE due to how the game is setup.

The argument should have been that you should invest in your toon not that it's mandatory but because it is your toon.

We all suffered loses until we got better, it was always possible to win without investing, it just was not always possible when up against someone who had more skill and higher gear and was being griefed.

I am saying that I seriously doubt they will ever be able to fix PvP, no matter what they do there will always be that baseline argument that newer players are at a disadvantage, because they simply cannot compete with players who have experience no matter what they do.

That's not to say that they should not do anything, I am basically saying to focus on experience players with newer players in mind.

That is the one area where they really went wrong, but it is fair to disagree, but having HT anything added substance to PvP, the complaints to me were from people who could careless about that DLC.

Yes, they did do a PvP-centric episode/DLC.

But they haven't done one since, and it's been a long time since the release of that episode.

For good or ill, they've never been shy about going with what works for sales (we probably wouldn't keep seeing Booster Bundles or TCs if they didn't sell) so the fact that we haven't seen more PvP episodes is kind of telling about how profitable it may have been.

True but, there is another DLC that we both know still bring in revenue which is HT.

Mind you it is available also with membership, but once that ends it would be the first DLC one would purchase and they haven't followed it up with anything.

The marketplace is another good example of them not following up on something profitable like the portable table.

Truth be told, TC's and booster bundles probably is keeping the game alive, not to be harsh but they kind of painted themselves in a corner with the way the content feels, which goes back to why the OP is pretty much bored.

IMO, they have two choices, go back to pre T5 days or keep doing what they are doing.

It really is no comparison between now and then, even with the new additions, the game still struggles unlike back then, even though they'd say they have way more newer players.

It's just now those items became the new replay badges, lol.

Edit: There is other content that they didn't repeat, League halls come to mind. The game used to be so profitable that they had decent sales and other gimmicks and didn't have to do open episodes, just that the parent company doesn't see the game worth.

Let me add this to my previous comment.

There were other changes that happened after that DLC that newer players would not be aware of.

Staff cuts. Trouble times that they did not like for us to discuss.

Part of the problem now is still directly linked to running the game with a skeleton crew.

While it is really easy to say, "not my fault" or "they should hire more programmers or staff", it is not really up to the staff of DCuo now is it.

Attacking other systems or sources of revenue will do you no favors in garnering positive attention to the long neglected PvP. Just because you feel like you've tried "better" methods in the past doesn't mean it's a good idea to go the negative route...unless your goal is to further keep PvP in the same abandoned state.

PvE may be boring to you, but it literally keeps the game going. Without PvE there would be no game to complain about at all.

PvP needs more than just a "lousy fix" according to just about everyone asking for PvP to be fixed. That means making major investment in an area of the game that won't bring any returns on said investment in the immediate future. No one has come up with a plan to monetize PvP (thereby making it worth the company's time to prioritize), and that includes the company itself. Then there is the long list of things people think needs fixing in PvP....things people don't all seem to agree on.

Not trying to sound cold, but you're not the first to leave in a huff, and won't be the last. All the things you find boring keep them in business, so the odds of them changing tactics are extremely low.

Now if you're genuinely interested in getting them to do something to bring life back to PvP you might want to one, drop the attitude and instead approach them like human beings. Two, come up with a reasonable list of fixes that won't require a ton of resources and that your fellow PvPers can agree on, and maybe they might consider that. If you insist on addressing them in an angry tone and being vague (fix PvP...like what exactly) then you'll get more of the same....a whole lot of nothing.

You a choice, you can try what I suggested above or you can reply in a typically angry way which will get us all nothing. Think about it.

Umm....worst example to use...Last Laugh was a failure for them, which is why they never did it again and pretty much gave away the maps that were originally DLC only.

Ahh, I remember the good old days of AM when roles had a specific job in PvP. I remember when even Legends PvP required skill to pull off a win. Alas, those good ol’ days seem to be dead for-ev-er...sad face.

I didn't say it was a knock out of the park success, just that it was profitable.

Besides some of the best content in the game is free, FOS, batcaves.

But since you said that...did they give it away before or after they revamped the maps and messed with PvP and put it in the state it is in now?

Did they not lose a good chunk of staff before they gave it away?

You have been playing and visiting the forums longer than I so I know you know the answer to that.

To fix what is broken regarding PVP requires that the devs who are there now understand the entire PVP engine. Remember how Shrek talked about peeling away the layers of an onion? Well, that's exactly what would have to happen. Mepps has even said as much... that to unravel the entire mess that is PVP they have to peel away each layer of change that was added over the years because this or that small group of very vocal people wanted some advantage over another or a disadvantage to them removed, or some former devs didn't like having their butts handed to them when they played so they built in tiny advantages for them (or disadvantages to others). To do all of this would require losing a PVE DLC because of the resource redirection. Now you want to fix all of what is wrong (actually, the already existing underlying problems exposed because of GU73)... and that's another PVE DLC lost.

The other option is to rebuild the PVP engine from the ground up. This option would probably be a lot saner and cleaner from the development perspective... but again would also cause the loss of at least one PVE DLC due to resource redirection.

So... how do you propose to make up for the lost income from the missing PVE DLC or two? How do you propose to retain the interest of the much larger PVE community when a DLC cycle goes by and no new content comes out? This is your chance to put on the hat of the business folks at DBG/DI and give them a real proposal instead of asking the same old question, "When are you going to fix PVP?" and get the same answer of, "There are no plans to do anything with PVP at this time."

As somone that has never played PVP, but would like to start, and would therefore like to see a good percentage of the game's population running PVP, one idea that occurs to me as a possible money maker is to PVP Starter Packs in the Marketplace, similar to the Starter Packs they already sell for PVE. Those have helped me to get new alts up and running quickly, and a PVP Starter Pack would help new PVPers get started with PVP gear appropriate to their character level/CR, which, to be honest, seems to be hard to obtain in-game once you reach a certain point in your character's progress.

I also agree that what the Devs need is very specific info on what things about PVP players consider to be broken, so they know what fixes would satisfy the majority of the player base. If the PVP Starter Packs I'm suggesting were tied into a newly revamped PVP experience, that would be a way to increase the profitability of their work developing the revamp. Maybe make it where you have to buy at least one starter pack to take a character into the updated PVP or something.

Pvp doesn’t need some massive fix, the problems within pvp are minor, so some huge fix isn’t needed.

1. Power efficiency- when you spec superpowered the regen from using might attacks is so great that it enables spamming, providing no consequences since you’ll never run out of power, and since you can’t counter might abilities. If superpowered’s power regen mirrored weapon experts spamming wouldn’t be as effective as it is now. This issue is the most focal one

2. Combo powers not being blockable

3. You just simply have certain abilities that are a little too strong, and this isn’t even a core issue since it’s not causing a huge balance issue within pvp.

Pvp isn’t as broken as people make it out to be, there are only certain things that need to be addressed, and this doesn’t require some huge unraveling of the pvp system, it just doesn’t, it’s not needed and would be a waste of resources

Articulating all that is a good first step. Granted there's probably some room for greater detail to be filled in, but it's still a good first step. It's part of what the devs need.

Unfortunately the other part needed is getting the rest of the PvP community to agree with that. And considering that's something along the same lines as herding cats...*shrug*

Maybe you missed the part where Mepps has stated right here in these forums that it would require unraveling the PVP system and the peeling away of the layers of changes made to the system over time, and to do so would require the loss of a DLC cycle.

OK, so now I'll put on my developer hat... I make a small tweak to one thing to fix it... and five other things suddenly break. I find a glaring bug in how certain things work... so I fix it... and now something else breaks.

This is what GU73 ("stats matter") did to PVP: It exposed all of the errors made in the tweaks that were done over the years that were covered up by the Advanced Mechanics and CR Differential methods in place. In order to make your small tweaks, you have to understand the entire system... the bigger picture... something that was never really done when all of these tweaks were done to satisfy the loudest complainers along the way. You can make a small fix for an error, but there is always a chance that you're going to end up exposing another issue or two... or five. Yes, you might get lucky and have that one fix do exactly that... fix the problem without causing others.

What you do is give some specifics of what's broken. What you don't do is account for the time necessary for the developer teams who are there currently to research and figure out what actually needs to change and what impact that change will have on everything else to alleviate any cascading problems that result from that one change. Again, Mepps has come out and stated quite flatly that there are no plans for PVP at this time.

Ahh, ok, I get what you’re saying now, excuse my misunderstanding. We’re definitely on the same page

They know about the debuffs not working n it's a top bug confirmed so when they fix that it will be much better. Add the dmg back to legends n pve leg n pvp leg will be way better.