Test Discussion GU 103: Tank Balance

Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by Batuba, Mar 20, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Batuba Developer

  2. Black Jaq Devoted Player

    So the Brick Heal over time is really nice. Thank you.
  3. Cyro Committed Player

    Fire first impressions; Numbers look very off to me now i have always been bad at math so i could be wrong but at 5 hits on a burning target i should have 25% additional defense yet i was getting 18.521%. Here is the data if anyone wants to check my math

    Original defense - 35 673

    1 hit - 36 995 (3.705% increase)
    2 hit - 38 316 (7.408%)
    3 hit - 39 637 (11.112%)
    4 hit - 40 958 (14.815%)
    5 hit - 42 280 (18.521%)

    I tested my math a few times and i keep getting the same numbers

    I also tested the shield and its numbers dont check out either but because i was taking averages of damage its more likely it would have been an issue with inconsistent damage

    Over the course of 16 hits i took an average of 15 152 and with the shield which should negate 35% damage i was taking an average of 10 312 which is 31.94%
  4. Batuba Developer

    Consider that is not 25% of your current Defense as that has already been affected by multipliers. If you have 100 base defense, an ability that grants 35% defense then another that grants 25%, it will NOT be (100*1.35)*1.25 = 168.75 Def ... Instead it will be 100*1.6 = 160 Defense. This might account for what you are seeing. However, I'll look into it.
    • Like x 2
  5. Cyro Committed Player

    I forgot about that, not sure how i would be able to calculate that unfortunately, but the only multiplier that was in play was the initial 35%, i didnt have the neck or mystic
  6. AV Loyal Player

    You can calculate your base def by dividing your Stat page def by 1.x, where x is your % bonus def from all sources (tank mechanic, neck mod, artis, etc). All stats are calculated as:
    Stat Total = (Sum of all raw sources) x [100%+(Sum of all % modifiers)].
  7. lllStrichcodelll ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Aside from Tank balancing, can we talk about Burning Determination (Fire) for a second?
    That powers Animation clearly Shows a Shield or at least a Damage Mitigation. A lot of People (including myself a while ago) get confused, because you see a Shield Animation - but its just a heal.

    Would be nice to have this taken a look at since its confusing a lot of People new to the power or People that dont pay too much Attention on all the Details.
    • Like x 2
  8. Vindex Active Player

    Thanks so much Batuba and Mepps for listening to us regarding Tank Balance, for Earth in particular by giving Brick his HOT via Fortify Golem and buffing Totem's HOT for Brick.
  9. L T Devoted Player

    Maybe we could return burning determination to use the blue halo of flame that fire had in the AM days. I think that would be preferable to re-using the shield effect.
    • Like x 3
  10. SendScrim New Player

    TL;DR:
    Please address fire's self heals


    The updates to fire are certainly welcome, but I don't think the main issue with fire tanking has been addressed yet.

    The passive heals still aren't substantial enough to warrant use in endgame content. Sure, more defense helps any tank, but as was mentioned in the initial tank balance thread, fire's strengths are meant to be high health and self-heals—not defense. Stoke flames and burning determination, in my view, should be the highlights of fire tanking. Instead, they're just there to make it slightly easier for a healer to carry you until you can pop another shield. In that sense, fire has been—and continues to be—a poor man's ice tank + backdraft.

    Fire is the only tank since the AM days to completely lose its self-sufficiency. Ice and earth fill the same heavy mitigation niche as they used to. Atomic is still a high mitigation tank with good heals. Rage is still the goldilocks tank that does everything extremely well. Fire however, used to have heals on par with rage, but became a tank with the worst mitigation and the worst heals. Since mitigation was never the purpose of fire, I don't think the extra defense (even with the new artifact) is much more than a bandaid.

    Potential solutions:

    -Buff base resto in tank role (35%-50% maybe)
    -Allow burning determination to function for the duration of the cooldown instead of capping at 10 heal procs
    -Similarly, adjust eternal flame to be more inline with its AM version
    -Buff the heal values of either stoke, burning det, or both
    -Allow backdraft to benefit from the orb of arion (this is a weird one, I know)
    -Add a HOT to burnout
    • Like x 5
  11. August Moon Well-Known Player

    i have to agree with you but i do realize you dont have absorb heat on there which when i tested fire is the best heal they have , unfortunately you cant jump cancel out of it which makes it kind of ......situational . the only solace tot he move is that it continues to heal after being interrupted
  12. FireJRStorm New Player

    @Batuba can you please remove the "Shield animation" for Burning Determination and replace it with the original Blue Flames animation, it gets confusing thinking Immolation is active when its not
    • Like x 1
  13. Cyro Committed Player

    I think i speak for the entire fire tanking community when i say we want the blue flame back, it was really cool and it made no sense why they changed it
    • Like x 4
  14. Cyro Committed Player

    Fires shield no longer has a back white mod to reduce the cooldown was this intended?

    Wildfire heals are horrible right now and it is unusable, can the power get a buff to its healing capabilities in tank role? Right now for every burning enemy i get a heal for about a 1000 can it be changed so there is a exponential curve based on enemies hit instead of a linear curve basically a multiplier.
    • Like x 1
  15. Juggurnaut Level 30

    How will the changes to fire’s immolation affect manacles of force? Since it will only be mitigating 35% of damage going forward. Will this mean manacles will not be able to reset the cooldown any longer?
  16. Juggurnaut Level 30

    Currently in live immolation does not have a cool down reduction. Only burning determination and stoke flames.
  17. Juggurnaut Level 30

    I agree. Fires is supposed to be the self healing tank. Fire is not very good at healing itself right now. All of the healing abilities should be increased to heal more. Backdraft, stoke flames, burning determination, wild fire and absorb heat. Stoke flames and burning determination should last the length of their cooldown. Either the healing capabilities could be boosted or the restoration could be raised while in tank role.
    • Like x 2
  18. SendScrim New Player

    Just to elaborate on this point a bit more:
    The change to immolation now leaves fire with the worst base and max defense (if my math is correct, this holds true even with the everyman being added), the least useable/effective heals, and the worst shield.

    What is the advantage to fire, at this point? What does it have that you can't get a better version of with other tanks? If health is the answer, I don't think fire's max health is anywhere near high enough to justify its many deficiencies.

    The tank spectrum as I see it:
    Ice is pure mitigation with no heals. Earth is very high mitigation + damage transfer and negligible heals. Atomic is high mitigation + moderately strong active heals. Rage is moderate mitigation + very strong passive heals. Shouldn't the logic follow that fire ought to be low mitigation (bolstered by high health) + insane heals (both active and passive)? This would make fire the inverse of ice, and would give it the kind of specific utility that all the other tanks have.

    I think we've got the low mitigation part down. Just need the insane heals now.
    • Like x 3
  19. Cyro Committed Player

    Yup your right, i thought there was but i was mistaken, my bad
  20. The Anxient Loyal Player

    Density is by far the worst shield.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.