Test Discussion GU97: Weapon Combat Update

It isnt just defense tho, they just don't work, for instance staff, can't really fit all staff combos in a raid setting

both around 70'000, more or less equally ^^

POSSIBLE FAIL?
when using staff. the roundhouse combo into air launch mastery can be performed, however: though it is leading into the same pose and animation, it can not be performed after launching roundhhouse combo, not sure if intended. the following kick is the same, so... it appears strange that the mastery can not be used instead too...

Why is ranged being given such a high precedence over melee?

I guess cause range can be used in all content/scenarios while uh meleeing is handicapped.

"

• Bow
  • Mastery versions of abilities now appropriately do more damage compared to their normal counterparts
  • Changed the name of the non-bow-slam-combo “Bow Slam” to be “Melee Attack”
  • Adjusted Kip Up

• Brawling
  • Doom Spin Mastery no longer does 4x the damage that it was supposed to.
  • Slightly increased Home Run Mastery

• Dual Pistols
  • Mastery versions of abilities now appropriately do more damage compared to their normal counterparts

• Dual Wield
  • Mastery versions of abilities now appropriately do more damage compared to their normal counterparts

• Handblast
  • Mastery versions of abilities now appropriately do more damage compared to their normal counterparts
  • Slightly increased Ground Pound Mastery
  • Slightly increased Haymaker Mastery

• Martial Arts
  • Mastery versions of abilities now appropriately do more damage compared to their normal counterparts

• One-Handed
  • Mastery versions of abilities now appropriately do more damage compared to their normal counterparts
  • Spin Slash no longer does more damage than it should

• Shield
  • Mastery versions of abilities now appropriately do more damage compared to their normal counterparts

• Rifle
  • Mastery versions of abilities now appropriately do more damage compared to their normal counterparts

• Staff
  • Mastery versions of abilities now appropriately do more damage compared to their normal counterparts
  • Martial Flowers no longer does 2x the damage that it was supposed to
  • Leaping Overhead Strike no longer does 2x the damage that it should
  "

Is this an incomplete patch? I noticed some weapon combos like doom spin changed (overnerfed and now the worst combo to do on 3 targets out wm & hybrid), but dual pistols sweep shot was still bugged and producing massive numbers. And after testing several of the weapons (brawling, 1h, staff,dp, and hb), the same combos are still in the 20-40% bonus damage range instead of 10% (some producing small leads in dps for melee dps that would create new fotm weapons instead of having absolute freedom). Is there a fixed internally/investigating, but waiting to go on test server list? The notes make it sound like they were all fixed to their intended damage but it would seem that that's not the case.

Where is the logic in these weapon adjustments? If you're taking a huge risk to do a long, slow weapon combo (like doomspin) that can be blocked at any point, shouldn't there be a huge reward at the end of the combo to justify taking the risk?

Also, what is the point of nerfing venom wrist, then trying to get people to stay precision by giving a free 200 venom wrist, if in the end you're just going to destroy all the weapons and combos that would incentivize people to choose prec over might?

To my mind, a rational approach is as follows:
Melee prec incurs more risk than any dps setup (due to proximity AND counter risk); therefore, it should have more inherent damage potential. Instead, things like doomspin and stunning swipe are being gutted to the point of being useless. Interestingly, the devs don't seem to have an issue applying this logic to might powers like rage and earth. Both take more risk than other powersets by being at melee range, but if they can manage to do so without dying, they have the highest damage potential in most instances—rightfully so. It also follows that, as a matter of balance, powers like rage and earth shouldn't be dominant in every situation, otherwise there'd be no point in playing other powers; so, both powers fall back to the pack in ranged or single target situations. This makes sense. Just like it makes sense for electricity to be dominant on large add groups, but average on small add groups and bosses. Or for water to have a dominant supercharge to offset otherwise average base damage. Every dps setup should be a series of advantages and disadvantages in relation to all other dps setups.

With that being said, what is the advantage of being precision in relation to might? Precision doesn't exist in a vacuum. It must neccesarily compete with might. So, perhaps someone can enlighten me as to what situation(s) a prec dps would be preferable to a might dps, now?

PROBLEM:
there is no risk vs reward, long combos are basicly useless.
melee is to weak. STOP TESTING ON SPARING TARGETZ!!!

SUGGESTION:
double the damage for melee WM´s (and additionally)
double the damage for all WM´s for the WE playstyle

this ^ also homerun mastery hits still and again like a pillow, as it allways has... when and why were those two WM´s nerved so much?

yes. yes, WM´s at the end of long combos should. right now i got the feeling the weapon masteries are hitting nothing like they should.

i feel as something went terrible wrong with testing and the adjustements...

also: thou shall NOT compair thigh weapon damage
when looking at parsers fighting training dummies!!!
remember tunso testing... just saying... please remember...

From a rage pov i can see ppl using prec spec on ST range depending on troll and then there is nature which outperforms everything could be even melee since they can CC adds in dps role, increasing their survivability.

The fact that some people might choose to use prec for single target isn't indicative of a clear advantage for precision in that instance—it's a display of preference.

As it stands, there is no ranged single target weapon combo on test that is outperforming the basic might single target loadout for rage (heat vision, channel hate, dreadful blast). The might loadout tops out in the mid to upper 20k per second range (with current max might), as do the most viable ranged weapon combos (with might dots and pets; at around 27.5k precision) on test. With the damage values as they are, precision is essentially a damage loss in virtually every situation. There is one combo left that does offer precision the kind of advantage I'm referring to, but I'm not particularly interested in helping the devs nerf the entire prec playstyle. However, seeing as the combo has already been mentioned in this thread, I'm sure they'll nerf it shortly. Then, prec dpsing will be a completely pointless endeavor. All risk, no reward.

Well this is all concerning reading a week before the update, has this been all for naught?

*sigh* Sweep Shot Mastery was a copy/paste error on my part. That will be fixed.

it is. realy: it is very concearning, indeed... i mean: hopefully, they wait for the weapon adjustments till the next episode in dezember... looking at the last minute changes before revamp happened, chances are like 50/50 they will do the same with the weapon pass and readjust everything right before it goes out, overkilling each nerf and every buff to slap testers in the face before they go silent and stop replying in the forum... just saying: if the playstyle stats wouldn't have been bandaided with the VWD, this whole update could have been prevented IMAO

There was a few good combos for melee. Now, it seems the are nerfed beyond use again.

Would you mind clarifying what the overarching goal is here? The word "balance" gets thrown around quite a bit, but the direction these adjustments are taking precision seems to be toward a starker imbalance in relation to might.

Am I wrong in concluding that you're looking at and correcting for imbalances between the raw damage values of weapon combos and ignoring important context like difficulty of use, length of combo, practicality in raids, proximity risk, viability against might, etc.?

This all seems like a series of vast over-corrections that can never be expected to lead to any semblance of overall balance—if that is indeed the goal.

Yep, they don't account on raid situations nor use, majority of these weapons simply won't work in raids , people claim op op, but majority of the time these combos get interrupted especially longer ones, or add/pull movement..

You can't compare jackhammer to doomspin, jackhammer is 360 doomspin although 360 has to move and repeat the combo again...

WMs not just pistol will not be usable if parses are too low, people will go back might, people will have to cancel and repeat the combos if tank pulls etc

Please try to take into consideration how interruptible weapons are. Melee combos in particular can be interrupted by block. That means the combo can literally be aborted by an enemy that isn’t even looking at you. It might not even have been aware of you. Add large groups of enemies into the mix, if even a single one blocks, even if it’s not your target, it’s over.

I just want to stay true to my vision for my characters and not have the scoreboard make me look like a complete liability at the end. You people notice I complain a lot about dying? That’s because when you’re barely matching half the damage output of your teammates, any death at all makes you feel utterly utterly crushed by embarrassment. It’s humiliating in a way no video game should be.

So as my esteemed friend Starnbock keeps trying to tell you, I beseech you, please don’t base your numbers on glorified punching bags. As soon as I start being stun-locked and countered by Argus goons, those numbers are useless to me. I don’t care about being the best dps on the server, I just don’t want to be made to feel like a parasite.

There's still a few good combos that can parse slightly higher than might. But as of rn, I'm not continue'ing testing until Autymn responds to some of the questions people have including myself and re-buff's 2h doom spin as well as Staff Downward Smash since it's currently hitting for the same damage as the 3rd staff tap. The latter bit being a sign of if they actually care about having weapons viable or if this was just a delayed nerf. Otherwise, I'm not giving feedback that could potentially kill the rest of the weapons if they're nerfing and don't re-buff when the numbers are wrong. I'd also encourage any other testers reading this to consider the possible consequences of your reports as well.