Sm and elite content improvements to keep people going.

Ok, so first off the dlc was great I honestly enjoyed running it with my friends and leaguemates as we went through raids. Dev team did a good job on this content and I really appreciate their work, but endgame players tend to get bored after a while of spamming elite content to achieve max gear with nothing to go for. These raids were way more difficult than any other raids released since USE. Again good job devs but their could be more to this content to spice it up a bit more to keep endgame players and even casual players to shoot for while gearing. I think these elite raids and future elite raids should be made even more difficult without all the nerfs. Adding enrage timers to bosses like nexus could have given dps their one and really main mechanic “burn” lol. It would give dps more intention on improving one and another’s skill and abilities to complete the elite content. Another thing that could improve elite content would be more raids like wave and nexus. For some years you devs have been using the same old 3 boss setup and it’s honestly getting old and played out. From T1-T5 this content was unique considering how each raid was so diverse. It made the content fun to run not just the same old 3 lane system that we’ve seen for years. One more thing that could improve elite content is FEATS, PEOPLE LOVE FEATS ESPECIALLY HARD NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE FEATS. Speed feats, no die feats, feats for leaving bosses up ( feats that were in Wave and USE which were my favorite raids ever released by far. Feats really run the game, having bragging rights in game is basically EVERYTHING to some people along with just being one of the first to complete really hard things excite endgame players. That’s what keep people going in dc and with out the fun it’s just boring. An along with actual endgame feats and making this content a little more elite for all roles( all this content was a joke for dps and good controllers , we burnt through everything no issue , enrage timers or heal shields similar to ultimate soilder would help a lot) sm would be a great addition and the icing on the cake. It gives us another goal on our checklist while you guys make the next content and will 100% keep players on game on the off periods. Me personally if the game was brought back like this idk if I would even consider other games and I’m pretty sure people will agree too. No point of gearing over and over with no end goal.. GIVE US A GOAL AND MAKE IT HARDER FOR US TO REACH IT.

If we are able to go in at baby CR and beat the elite raids the first day, what is the point of even gearing up anymore? We need SM back.

Here is a way to make the content last longer, STOP USING REPLAY BADGES TO SPAM THE CONTENT !! Doing two bosses in the elite (HIVEe or PANe) to get the renown because you can't finish the content then replaying the raid for more renown, finishes the contents faster and then you are BORED. You bring this on yourself then whine like a crybaby because "the content wasn't challenging enough". BOO HOO.

Hive E and Machine E were both doable without any renown. Avatar Bombardier gear or just regular blue and purple drops from content are all I had when I beat Machine E, and Hive E was obviously easier than that for the first two weeks. Hive E has been buffed, but it took two weeks after release for that to happen. Still, they do both provide good challenges, at release or even after gearing up. However, that's not the issue. The issue is, these aren't raids that people need to gear up for 2 months to finally have a chance at beating. This statement is obvious when you take into account the fact that you have to beat the raids in order to get the best gear. I never quite understood the logic behind renown.

Anyways, these two raids are raids that if you don't beat on release day, you will beat within the first few weeks if you have a good group, and after that will beat however many times is necessary for renown. Unfortunately, there is still going to be three months after that first month till the next DLC drops. What then is the point of grinding out whatever gear you have not yet attained, if it's not needed? That is where lots of players get "bored", and decide to stop playing. There's a huge lack of incentive to grind here. Notice by the way how I said "lots of players get bored." It may not matter to you, but I'm sure it matters to the developers who these SM threads have been aimed at, since some of these players may end up not renewing membership until the next DLC, or at all again.

SM may very well not be viable anymore after revamp. It would probably take a lot of work. However, that is not the point of what people have really been saying with these SM threads since Earth 3 DLC was out. The point has been that although the raids provide a decent challenge (this episode has actually been a huge improvement over Earth 3 and Deluge in terms of challenge), there needs to be something to work towards. That is what SM used to be for a lot of people. It was probably the most fun a lot of people had on this game. If SM is not viable anymore, that does not mean you can't stagger content. There should always be something people are gearing up for. Having one or two raids at release is fine, however I believe there should be a more challenging piece of content that takes into consideration max gear and augments that comes out a month or two after the release of the DLC. This would be something for people to actually look forward to and give them enough of an incentive to actually gear up for. That is just what I see is the issue with a few endgame players.

youre lots of players are like 1-5% of the community, its not that much. people that say theres nothing to do after new content drops are usually the people that used replays badges galore the first few days it was out to get everything.

to answer a question with one: Whats the point in rushing new content when you know there's no need?

Well, considering it should take players not using replay badges at least 2.5 months to complete the vendor set in the first place...

2 boss spam.... I’ve literally never done this... beat raids pretty easily after a few attempts.. that’s not the problem lol

Rushing the content is not the problem here ..... I’m saying what is the point in gearing over and over???? Just to say it max regardless of how long it takes what’s the incentive ..... content is fun when it’s fresh I say make it even harder for people to beat and add hard feats with sm an all off a sudden I’m rushing gear ..reread my comment.. I want more of a challenge, something to work towards cause even tho these raids were nice we along with others didn’t have to work much to get geared. All I’m saying

While I agree with you that there should be something to gear up-to, I just can't wrap my head around it being SM and for the sake of argument I would say OK let's assume that a lot of people ran SM why would Mepps say not a whole lot actually ran SM.

If it was truly as successful like the TC I would have to believe they would not stop putting it out there for us to run it but would release more SM content.

I say that because we'll, there was a thread that hated on the Dev's for buff 1 of the newer raids.

I just don't believe this community would react positively to any content that requires you to gear up for, the vast majority feels that any content should basically be beaten easily with green gear or gear from an earlier tier.

It is the same community that has a broken block button and didn't even know how to mod their gear, nor feel as though they should have to improve any parts of their characters.

I strongly agree that it does not make since to actually have to run elite just to actually buy elite, but again the community need a reason to run any content, which is why not many ran SM because they felt that it did not have rewards that helped with progression (SMH).

Literally the first thing I said: "Hive E and Machine E were both doable without any renown," which means zero vendor gear. So the question, "whats the point in rushing new content when you know there's no need?" doesn't really make sense when it was very clearly stated replay spamming the content was not at all necessary to beat it.

I understand people here think everyone that complains about these things is a replay spammer that is at max CR, but you have to realize that's not always the case. There is a very real argument to be made about DLC longevity, and I proposed a solution. Keep sticking to the replay badge narrative. And, I'm sorry if me being part of a minority suddenly makes any of my concerns less valid.

With all that said, I do understand that a lot of people do spam themselves into boredom. However, I don't think that makes my proposal for staggered content any less valid.

I do get the whole "whats the point of grinding elite gear" argument. As a dps I strive to get the best stats possible so that I can try and out dps my buddies. But take away the bragging rights aspect of it and it becomes pretty pointless. You clearly can already beat the hardest content in the game if you are able to acquire elite gear. Theres nothing harder coming until the next dlc and your elite gear will be getting replaced with greens and blues so really whats the point?

I don't think that a SM that gives no progressional value will be the fix. There just needs to be a better way to stagger progression. Like when origin crisis came out we were encouraged to do the duos and solos first to get gear and beat the alerts. Then get alert gear and a vender piece or 2 to be able to beat the raids. Maybe make the vender gear required to get through the raids and the regular raids drop renown for elite gear that you'll need to beat the elite raids. Then make the elite raids choc full of feats and random op gear drops. Personally that would excite me and make more sense than the current form of progression. But would turn off casuals and theres a lot of casuals playing this game.

Whether people want to admit it or not, the devs do actually still care about the "elitists" and their opinions, even if it is a casual dominated game. Otherwise, they wouldn't be putting in this much effort to make Elite raids more of a challenge. So, sitting here and lobbying for a different form of progression is not completely hopeless.

SM does not need to be progressional imo. It is what all of the progression during one dlc cycle should culminate in.

I'm open to anything that makes it so spending hours upon hours grinding gear and augments actually matters. At this point, all you need is to wait for next dlc, get some green and blue drops, and repeat the process. There is no point to grinding out gear for content you've already beaten. It was the same for Pan E and Escape E, and TTBE and Escape E. Vendor gear is not necessary, and the prices have increased with this DLC making the grind even less appealing.

Literally the point being made is that there is no reason to gear up if we can beat these "uber hard elite raids" day one with low CR. This point actually fights AGAINST the whole "then stop spamming replays" argument because if we can beat the raid with baby gear day one, then why bother spending replays on higher tier gear?

While I do agree with the position to a certain point as i remember the FOS2 Bridge days fondly, Replays are being brought up because another point is being ignored which is valid. People were replaying the same raid and beating 2 bosses out of 3 to build up renown to buy the Elite gear. Either a majority of the community was dropped on their heads as kids, or the reason only 2 out of 3 bosses were beaten was because the 3rd boss Couldn't be beaten with dropped gear, or it was extremely difficult.

If the argument being made is "There needs to be something to aim for" then they've given you the answer. There is, the 3rd boss. Considering the last boss usually either gives out the most Renown and/or most Marks, it'd be insane not to if it were easy.

not going to read a wall of text. but sm and elite content is stuff that is driving ppl away from playing raids and enjoying content at different calibers and not a rehashed piece with 3 different levels with off-set progression levels.

Basically, they need to follow suit with elite as they did with sm and get rid of it.

Somehow I get the feeling somebody is starting to get it.

It is why the boredom kicks in, no real challenge.

Back in the day there was a thing called gear check.

It was really cool, see you would go into FOS 2 and the initial set of adds would test your gear.

The feats were very difficult to complete there was even a speed feat that if you were able to check dates for when people obtained said feat you would find that just about everyone got the feat way after they outgeared the content.

People like to talk about OC, please, with OC most completed that content with gear equal to the CR level of that content.

Naw, Prime was worst than that, people would have to actually get more gear than that content.

Most needed tier 5 gear to even beat Prime.

What made it even worst was the only decent drop in Prime was the OP helm and a 125 weapon.

Literally the gear didn't help a whole bunch of groups for T3 or T4 when HT was released.

Sure some were very good back then, but clown box was used back then for exploiting Prime just as it was for ToTD.

Oh them days.

I disagree elite is fun. If it's just normal raids it will get boring real quick. What's the fun in unlimited deaths there's no challenge to that. Elite you have to follow mechanics and that is fun

I totally agree that there should be a goal to work towards. I understand that the Dev who coded SM in his free time is no longer with the company, but something should be put in its place that is similar if not the same as SM.

Everyone's out here gearing up and for what? To beat the same content they could beat day 1? Where's the fun in that? What did we really accomplish? Not ****...There just needs to be more incentive because atm there's none.

Great thread Memz

We've had this conversation already. As long as renown is dropped in elite raids (instead of normal) they will always be able to be beat without elite gear. The problem is more related to the devs progression system rather that being able to beat content day 1. Also, how many players are/were able to beat both elite raids completely, honestly? And no, exploiting an endless death counter on Terra doesn't count, lol.

I'm not against asking for another piece of hard content like SM, but I do wonder what percentage of the population actually needs it. I hope you get what you're asking for, though, because the current progression is odd.