GU73: The Stats Revamp - July 21, 2017

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Avair, Jul 21, 2017.

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  1. Charmed Legacy Dedicated Player


    Well for this current DLC I wait until the end of the "day" for each toon on running stuff and see which pieces come out to be the highest CR since you're bound to get repeat items. Once I see which ones are highest that's the ones I use and remove the previous mod and place it in the newly acquired piece. When that toon has enough currency to buy my next piece of vendor gear I have the materials to make the best mod for it because of all the salvaging to get essences. It seems to somewhat work its self out, but if I'm short on other materials like simple/complex I just grab some from broker. I will say I think the amount of materials needed for the newest mods and future mods should definitely be looked into because certain ones are too high as Proxy mentioned earlier. With the way Stats Revamp has been laid out this entire time on test server it's pretty obvious this was the direction they were going to go considering the majority of your stats come from gear, gear mods, and gen mods.

    It doesn't effect my gaming experience currently, but when stats revamp goes live it would. I'd hate to end up in a survival mode with a tank who was modded with dom or health synth 6s (example). *shudder* That's a great deal of dom/HP missing from not having proper mods made and socketed.

    Thanks for the complement on my signature! I was just about to change it to a similar but different one lol. :p
    • Like x 2
  2. Roocck Committed Player

    I am glad that I put this crap behind me when I did. Who the wants to play a game that takes you hours to farm for 1 (like they say) true mod and another couple of hours to finish a raid (if not a lot longer) with this ridiculous update. Sad that the dev's let the community (a hand full of testers) completely change their game. The majority of the changes in this update was uncalled for. To my league owner Ceimsonnight, I want to thank you for trying to bring me back by paying for month of sub but in reality was a waste of your money and 6 hours of my time (for the month).. Wish those who decides to stick around the best wishes....
    • Like x 2
  3. Gamma Lantern Committed Player

    Yes people should complain, the devs removed synthetic mods from the game after years and only gave the community a day's notice.

    That's sloppy and unprofessional and professional apologists like you are why they think they can make these type of slap dash decisions without properly informing players.

    This has no effect on my toons but I can at least see this objectively instead of being toxic and crapping on other people because they have a problem with a hasty decision by the devs that gave literally no time to prepare.

    This silliest part of your post is where you try to tell people they won't be successful in life because they don't want to put a lot of work into a video game, just give your head a shake and go home.
    • Like x 9
  4. DCUO Addict Committed Player

    I understand your perspective on modding being part of game play. Personally, I don't see the mod process or the broker process as being game play, just as I don't see interacting with a vendor or checking my mail as game play. However, you're completely right that anything we do in the game is game play. Some of it is maintenance (for lack of a better word), and R&D fits into that category for me in DCUO. Other MMOs have a system for improving your crafting ability, making it more than a maintenance activity, so the comparison to other games isn't a good one from my perspective.

    What I'm trying to understand is how synth mods undermine the value of crafted mods. A might Special Forces mod will still give your character 164 might regardless of whether my character uses a Special Forces mod, synthetic mod or beta mod. Cramming lockboxes full of trash loot reduces their value because my chances of getting something useful/appealing are reduced. Shared loot locks between normal and elite raids impacts their value because people can only run elite twice a month for rewards without replay badges. How does having synth mods in the game reduce the value of crafted mods? You still get exactly what you crafted, and it's still the best in the game.
    • Like x 3
  5. DCUO Addict Committed Player


    This I understand. I don't play SM or elite because, well, I'm not elite, LOL. But I would expect anyone trying those out to have high SP and high mods. (A mix of SF and Oly might work, but probably all SF for SM.) That would be true whether synth mods exist or not. People use betas and lower level mods all the time. Synth mods are another option, and I think it's worth keeping that options.

    I'm curious about the new sig, but I'll miss this one. It's great!
  6. EconoKnight XIII Legion

    There is an interesting idea there. What if they could apply the feat system to R&D crafting? The more mods you make, you reach levels that reduce the amount of materials needed to make the mods. It could start over for each tier putting it on a similar path to the gear grind and how mark cost is reduced when you complete a set of gear.

    They already have feats in the game for making a complete set (10 mods), so just tie the feat to unlocking and then you can buy the feat on alts or just make mods on your main and transfer them over.
    • Like x 4
  7. Charmed Legacy Dedicated Player


    I can see your point how this would hurt the more casual player, but to be the most effective at your role you need the extra stats. So much of your stats are coming from mods now that it will really the player not to use them. If costs were reduced on materials needed to craft mods, would that help the more casual player be ok with synths going away and more accepting of crafting?

    Told it was similar but slightly different lol :p
  8. DCUO Addict Committed Player

    Yes, and no. As with so many things in this game, to me, it depends on the implementation. You and Proxy probably have the right approach. Set up some kind of transition plan. The mod box that they're planning on sending out is a great start. It's very generous, so that will help me with my alts. It provides 20 equipment mods, which is very helpful from my perspective because I usually focus on non-DPS roles. But once I use those mods, they're gone.

    Planning is key, and communication is key. While I still don't understand why the synth mods need to be removed, my reaction would not have been so strong if this had been planned and communicated, instead of rushed, dropped on the test server less than 48 hours before the revamp and left out of the update notes. :oops:

    It doesn't help when people are attacking synthetic mods and the people who use them as a blight, lazy, a crutch, etc. (That comment isn't directed at anyone in particular.) I'm a casual player with a lot of alts because that's how I like to play. (Each of the powers is cool in its own way, why wouldn't I want to play them all?!) I'm not elite, but I can play my role well. I've filled out a lot of queues with my tanks and healers (sometimes trollers, probably more so after the revamp).

    Taking your valid point about SM from another perspective, wouldn't you want your tank to have some kind of mods in a normal raid, even if they can't have the best mods? Wouldn't you want them to have better than Betas, if possible? Wouldn't that make your raid run better? This community hasn't been flush with non-DPS players for years, if ever. Implementing something that will discourage dual roles, at the same time more roles are necessary, does not make sense to me.

    You're right about the sig - still awesome, but with a nice, fresh perspective! :)
  9. CaptainColdJr007AKAFreeJohnson Committed Player

    Just jumping in to state a point I haven't seen directly stated since most people are focusing on high tier'd people only. I used synthetics on my main for awhile, but I'm ok with losing them at the af3/aoj level given feedback others have noted that the recovery options need to be cheaper. However, the main issue I have is for people that are in T1-T8 that don't have said recovery options when these stats are supposed to be important after the stats revamp.

    To give an example that most people would probably be able to relate to, most people create a new toon whenever a new power comes out to test out if they're interested instead of just switching their main straight to it. They'll either choose to rank it up to end game or stop after a set point and switch their main once they're persuaded. When water comes out, there will be people ranking it up. Inside of solos,duos, maybe even alerts, it would be ok to not have mods. However, in raid situations, these people would have no way to have stats. It's not reasonable, nor probable that anyone would spend money buying skill points on alts used for demo purposes only, and no one is going to remod from t3 to t4 to t5 to t6 etc. up until af3. Which means if you are a dps queue'ing up for the lower raids (assuming we are still not able to solo lower content), you will be forced into raids with tanks, healers, and trolls that have no mods. Alone, they would probably wipe, and even with you, they'd probably still struggle considering you wouldn't be able to stay powered if your rotation relied on the troll, and the tank relies on the healer. If you switch to support to balance, then you lose your burn for the raid which could be detrimental to some groups.

    With a moderate to heavy investment in power being pushed with revamp due to costs, this creates an issue. I've seen people in testing feedback using the phrase "running lower content with content-appropriate mods and sp" for testing purposes. The issue with this is that on live, synthetics were those mods. New toons spend marks of victory on tactical mods, skill points via style vendor, vendor gear to push cr to unlock the next tier, or synthetic mods. For an alt, you wouldn't be purchasing the styles in the 10 marks vendor since you already have those feats on your main besides for style alone, tactical mods you should have by the time you get to t3/t4 tops, and vendor gear is bought as a last resort to push cr. After a set point, the majority of your marks went toward synthetics for having a few extra stats inside of raid runs such as power for dps since with no mods at all, the AM regeneration isn't even enough to use a rotation without running out of power even for something as basic as a gadgets. With raids being the main place that you go to get the highest gear to reach the next tier, you end up in a bad situation. These people are not going to have enough skill points to even go into power in their skill points, they'll prob be finishing crits if that. These people are not going to run enough of that tier's content to get the tier appropriate mod plans and then go through and actually craft them and lose those simples/complex since there's no recovery at lower tiers at all. The lower tier'd raids will be flooded with supports and dps's that don't have any stats or any quick access to achieve a minimum amount after an update that makes the game harder and more stat reliant. We can use beta mods at end game because we have skill points to still fluff our stats and buff soders etc. but at lower tiers, they don't have that fluff, they need the actual mod stats, especially power. That puts even more of strain on carrying those people for higher tier people, or it significantly slows the progression rate for alts since they won't be completing content. While a new player would need this slower pace to possibly learn the game, an older player would just be inconvenienced by this.

    TL;DR - Lower tiers still have a need for synthetic mods. If a function was created to allow for synthetic mods to only be used inside of a certain cr range (similar to how you get an error if you try to put one on a face piece), then that would stop higher tier players from using them while still giving ranking up alts/new players a way to mod their characters adequately for the harder content of their tier. Otherwise, you're going to end up in more severe carries for lower tier raids or people just won't create alts without a league to run with, which, even then, places an inconvenience on their leaguemates having to run with them when previously they wouldn't have HAD to.
    • Like x 3
  10. Charmed Legacy Dedicated Player


    I can definitely see how players who use synths on alts feel like this was a last minute crap surprise. You are right though, I do expect my tank/troll/heal/dps to be modded even in a normal raid with something. Betas would be pointless in the revamp since the socket bonuses basically suck. You would actually need to mod with 8s or higher for it to even be beneficial. I main with support roles so I can see your point there, but it's about what people like and enjoy doing more than modding. If someone likes support they'll play it. If they don't (which is the majority) they'll dps. I don't know if modding really encourages or discourages when it comes to people playing support. I think that some of the changes that the revamp is implementing will drive some people who enjoy support away from playing it though.

    Thanks for the complement on the new signature :p
  11. DCUO Addict Committed Player

    I agree that modding won't drive people to non-DPS roles. I play a healer because I like healing, same with other roles, including a couple of DPS focused toons. But if you just DPS (general 'you'), there's only one set of armor to mod. If you dual-role, yoy have two sets. Obviously, you know this because you do mod two sets of armor per toon.;) My point is that I know players that have or will throw their hands up and just go DPS only. Not because they don't enjoy healing/tanking/trolling, but because they have to have a decent DPS set-up to get through parts of the game. If you only have time for one role, and you want to play all content in a given episode, you practically have to be DPS.
    • Like x 4
  12. Charmed Legacy Dedicated Player


    I can see your point, but if you (generally speaking) really do enjoy your off role why not give it a little extra attention with some lower mods? Also out of personal curiosity what power do you main heal with?
  13. McShotzz Well-Known Player

    My one take away from synths being removed is i no longer have a "placeholder" mod for non-vendor gear.
    • Like x 2
  14. pitbullb3 Devoted Player

    I have 15 end game toons, AM I expected to mod all of them? Even if I had 3-6, modding every toon would cost millions. Why do people always run to the "everyone wanted be handed everything"? Who is asking for free stuff? Mist are asking about something that was in game being taken out. How is that asking for a handout? The mods weren't free. The new thing "maybe this game not for you" is just dumb. This game population can't take a bug hit, especially the villain server. Go to HoD between 4-8, and you will see groups shouting for a dps 5-10 minutes.

    Just a fyi, all my endgame toons have 7, 8, and Olympian mods in vendor pieces. I just look past myself and think about other players. Like I said before the villain population is low and I need players to play with.
    King Ragnarr
    Blk disciple
    Williethewimp
    Flukey Stokes
    Immasnake
    Mack Buddy
    Internet Thug
    Com ed
    Awesome Mechanic
    White Dice
    Metal Money
    White Folks
    Greedy Ceo
    Can't think of the other 2-3, but they have 7, 8, Olympian, and special forces mods in gear. Don't want to be called a liar
    • Like x 4
  15. DCUO Addict Committed Player

    Celestial is my favorite. I know, you're not supposed to have favorites, but I've loved it since a few months after it launched when I finally figured out how to combo reliably.

    My pre-revamp strategy has been to beta mod green and blue gear, relying on soders and omegas, trinkets, etc., to make up the difference, and then craft for my puple/vendor non-DPS gear. I mainly use synth mods in my DPS armor. Or, I craft all the hybrid mods for my head, chest, legs, and shoulders in both roles, and use synth on the single stat sockets. This is for the toons I'm more likely to DPS with.

    My post-revamp plan was to rely on more synth mods for green/blue gear to get a better stat bump than betas, convert my recovered Oly mods to DPS mods, and keep crafting for my non-DPS armor. Haven't figured out a new post-revamp plan. I'll look through all my plans to see what will work. Probably lower mods and a lot more farming materials. I'm not ready to retire my alts. I was looking forward to exploring the revamp with each of them.
  16. CrappyHeals Devoted Player


    If you choose to have that many characters and split your time up like that thats on you, don't complain if you can't mod them all but there should be no reason you cant mod your main and even 2 others correctly. And just putting betas in for your alts will be good enough to get by. Having the best mods is not necessary but if you are looking to get the most out of your character it is. The synthetic mod stats under the revamp would be so low anyway cause they are low tier that it wouldn't even be worth it and a beta to fill the slot will be just fine.
    • Like x 1
  17. BumblingB I got better.

    They weren't in a good place, but just removing them w/o warning or communication does leave people with a bad taste in their mouth. Considering that players have been asking for updates to the synthetic mods since T7 without any word from the development team and now suddenly they are being removed when modding will matter greatly, even with lesser quality mods.
    • Like x 12
  18. SocratesGS Well-Known Player

    CrappyCat, you're missing the idea behind all of these complaints. Sure this might not apply to you and that is why you are being a champion for the cause. Yes it's up to him to spend his time on that many characters. Just like anyone else that plays more than one character. The idea you are overlooking is that this is something totally feasible on live and it has been completely acceptable for years. Now a day before a major change people are being told that they won't have as much time to play all those characters they have invested time & money into for years. It's actually a very crappy way to make a crappy change.

    One thing I would like to point out to everyone is that Olympians will become the next synthetic mods after this change goes through. People will just craft Olympians for their character and then pay 20 MoV to keep reusing them. That will essentially become a more expensive synthetic mod. Casual players will not spend more time than they have too. That's why they are casual. So if they stick around, and if they craft mods; this is what the situation will look like going forward.
    • Like x 8
  19. Ringz Dedicated Player

    I agree with the removal of synth mods and the logic behind it.

    What i don't like is the last minute update. Thats very petty.
  20. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    Pretty much where I stand with this. I get the logic behind it even though it hurts alts, but I don't like the sudden removal with very little warning.
    • Like x 3
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