GU73: Fire

i honestly believe that fire needs to have 55% buff back to make it comparable to survivability of other tanks.
im personally a fan of the turtle tank and catch blues to live play style of fire however with that being said i know alot of people want to be "active" or battle tanks and with the current 40% buff to health and healing i just dont see the active playstyle being viable in all content. i think 55% would be a great balance for both play styles. Engulf needs to add pi as it has been pointed out here numerous times fire is the only tank that need the pi for survivability while tanking.

TAKEAWAY-
buff fires health buff from 40% to 55%
buff the healing recieved while not blocking buff from 40% to 55%
Let engulf apply the pi
(i would ask for burning determination to apply pi instead of engulf but i dont want to see the BD heals nerfed again)

Earthen Grip applies PI.

No in case of fire it really needs to be the pull , the NPC need to be on fire before they are in melee range for immidiately building up defence, if its unfair because of other tank pulls than u can argue its unfair that fire once again works totaly different than other tank powers , only tank power which has to rely on a pi to build up its benefit !

Alternative , get rid of this dependency and let fire build up defence by hits alone.

Because if they add a PI to it, then they have to either lower the heals or increase the power cost, both of which players didn't want to happen (and I among them).

Explanation was: "If we keep the burning, we have to reduce the heals" at that time it was like "ok, makes sense" (kinda).
Problem is, after that, they still nerfed the heals. TWICE. And now they buff it a bit, but not enough.

Passive increase from 40 to 55 percent allow engulf to inflict burning and shorten the character animation Thats all I ask before the update goes live ill work with it.

No thats not that important as having the pi since u are able to clip the animation but if u have to spam the pull sure would be nice to adjust the animation , not to compare to ice or rage pull.

Everything they are overlooking/ignoring are key components.
You want a long range pull? Here you have it, get stuck with it and enjoy it.
You want to self heal? Ok, you can do that. But just a little, ok?
Your health is your main defense? lots of health means lots of defense, so lets cut it down.
Dont like the health reduction? Here, have a pure defense buff. You gonna need to built it up over time while hitting burning enemies with just one usefull power dealing burning.

BRILLIANT. ENJOY!

my last 2 posts asking to bring up the health buff to 55% after some more testing were lacking in mitagation same as most tanks are except ice to be honest. The healing recieved need to apply at all times same as the health buff or we can even turn it back to having to activate a power every 12sec to recieve the buff either way. If you think about it every tank has 2 mitagating factors for fire its their large health pool and the ability to heal. If we dont have both of the mitagations while playing the turtle tank we are squishy even with both mitagation the active/battle tank is squishy. There is a reason that fire had to get buffed on live to have both increased healing and a 60% health buff + a % of dominance added to health its because without it we are squishy. On test currently you have nerfed our health buff from 65% to 40% giving us no health to work with you also made it so that healing recieved is only increase while not blocking essentially reversing everything that makes fire durable as a tank. Running high end content even over geared we feel softer than baby poop.

New takeaways-
increase health buff to 60%
give increased healing recieved even when blocking to 60%
give a defense buff to those who choose the active/battle tank playstyle

After re-timing things, Frost Blast is actually 3.2 seconds. and Fireburst is 2.3, which makes their effective damage over time roughly the same (except for the difference in cool down).

Avalanche still looks a bit out of whack though.

I agree (thanks for timing that stuff btw) about avalanche. It's a lot less risk for more reward compared to both frost blast and fireburst. IMO, they should take that into account and buff both of them somewhat, otherwise I doubt people will risk putting them on their loadouts. And I really hope they fix that bug where accidentally canceling doesn't reset the cooldown right away. That adds another second or two onto the CD.

Since the health buff was nerfed there needs to be a flat damage mitigation buff applied to when an enemy is burning. That damage mitigation percent is up to the devs, but right now not just fire but tanks in general need more mitigation. Its like you want players to not play as tanks.

In the current effects menu in tank stance, it says

-40 Healing Received- (+.275s)
20% Defense- (+12s)
40% Health - (+1.25s)

So the health buff seriously lasts a second after casting a power? I'm really confused by this effects menu.

Just to clarify, Fire's defense buff is a flat 20% regardless of the number of burning enemies?

When testing during 1.7, it basically starts at 20% and then goes up to 55% as you attack burning enemies. When you stop attacking, you have a few seconds and then it starts to gradually (pretty quickly though) decrease again. You can get it way up on a target dummy, open your stats tab and watch the numbers fall, lol. It's kind of fun when you're bored, actually.

I need to check this out. Sorry I'm late to this party and some things have probably already been said.

Cant you clip Engulf right away with a beneficial power or a trinket ?
If Dovetail prevents clipping that is indeed a big deal but its still important because without a clip you wont be able to return to blocking/attacking soon enough.

Also, how big of a difference do you guys see in self- healing with and without getting Healing crits from SP?

Fire is kinda the only tank that is required and should really benefit from getting all healing crits which are whole 60SP, so at the very least Fire would need additional 40 SP in healing crits compared to other tanks.

Like for Atomic I would probably invest first 20 SP in healing chance and then go for other stats.
Not much point to invest whole 40 SP in heal magnitude just for Proton Remedy.
While other Tanks can right away just spec first 20 SP in DPS crits.

Im with you on this one and I dont argue that longer dovetail puts you in a disadvantage. I was just wondering how bad exactly is it.
Plus the whole animation of Engulf donesnt even remotely resemble a pull type ability in any way.

I dont know if they can change the dovetail and keep same animation.

It would be dope if they get another quicker pull animation and re skin it to be on flames.

Mmm, I feel like re skinned Consume Soul or Soul Siphon in flames would be most suitable.
Now if Devs insist on same longer animation+ dovetail time, then this ability should atleast have additional effects like Healing proc and setting up PI.