Stats Revamp 1.6: Munitions

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by spord, Apr 28, 2017.

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  1. Penryn The Gadgeteer

    Feedback
    I'm having a hard time making Rocket Jump work in any Hybrid melee rotation. Aside from the range issues, the "jump" portion of Rocket Jump can cause you to miss follow-up melee attacks/powers while you are in the air. Here is an example with Rocket Jump + 'Splosion:


    I also find it easy to miss the first couple of tap attacks on melee weapon combos if I use Rocket Jump.

    I can see where Rocket Jump Retreat can be useful for repositioning/shielding for boss fights. Regular Rocket Jump just doesn't seem worth it though. The damage radius is poor and there are positioning issues.
    Penryn, May 2, 2017
    #41 Last edited by Penryn, May 2, 2017

  2. Penryn The Gadgeteer

    Bug Report
    If you're in Combat, Rocket Retreat will produce Supercharge even if you don't hit an enemy. Rocket Jump does not produce Supercharge in the same situation. Here is an example:
    Penryn, May 2, 2017
    #42 Last edited by Penryn, May 2, 2017

  3. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    Posts above this one have been reviewed by the development team.
    Mepps, May 2, 2017
    #43

  4. hotsizz1e03 Committed Player

    hotsizz1e03, May 2, 2017
    #44 Last edited by hotsizz1e03, May 2, 2017

  5. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    All posts above this one have been reviewed by the development team.
    Mepps, May 3, 2017
    #45

  6. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    We are working towards updating test by this Friday. Here's an update on what we're working on! Please note any changes here are not yet on the test server.

    Bugs:
    • There were many tooltip/text bugs reported in numerous ability descriptions. These have been fixed.
    • "If you're in Combat, Rocket Retreat will produce Supercharge even if you don't hit an enemy. Rocket Jump does not produce Supercharge in the same situation."
      • Fixed. Rocket Retreat will no longer produce SC like this.
    • "50 is suppose to be interruptible, but it isn't."
      • Fixed.
    • "The description for Chain Grenade Launcher says "Burning enemies take additional damage." From what I'm seeing, it inflicts Burning instead."
      • This text has been corrected to state it inflicts burning.
    Questions:
    • "Do Munitions channeled powers perform block-breaks on blocking NPCs? I remember being able to block-break on Live Munitions once you got the AM boost. Channeled attacks don't seem to perform block-breaks for Revamped Munitions."
      • Channels do not inherently counter enemies. Countering was related to using the advanced mechanic, which has been removed.
    • "I also suspect APS needs to be updated to work with Regenerative Shielding."
      • Supercharges do not work with Regenerative Shielding across the board. This is intended.
    General:
    • Channels:
      • In both Munitions and Fire, there has been much discussion related to the strength and vulnerability of channeled abilities. We will be reviewing big-picture changes to how we calculate channel damage and cast times based on this feedback.
      • There were related comments about power costs and channeled abilities. We will re-review these comments after decisions or changes to channels have been made.
    • Interruption:
      • Additionally, there were some comments about being interrupted more in the revamp vs. live. This actually isn't any different from live, but because you have less abilities with crowd control, you are noticing it more. Restoring CC to abilities would lessen their damage potential, so we do not plan to make changes here. Instead, we recommend using CC abilities in your loadout when you are feeling too vulnerable.
    • Melee:
      • Some of you noted difficulty with the range of Rocket Jump and other abilities being at 5m. 5m is the range for abilities that get higher damage for being melee. We do not plan to make changes here.
    • Burning:
      • There was confusion about there being multiple powers that can inflict burning. This is intended.
    • Biggun:
      • We recognize the change to Biggun has caused much debate. After review, we still believe it was simply out of line previously, and we are comfortable with how powerful it can be in the right situations as it is in the revamp now. No changes are planned.
    • Cooldowns:
      • There was some concern about perceived changes to cooldowns and the flow of abilities, specifically channels. Overall, very few cooldown changes were made to Munitions, and the abilities specifically mentioned in this regard have not had their cooldowns changed at all from live. This was intended and we do not plan changes here.
    • 50 cal:
      • There were suggestions to make 50 cal stronger compared to Railguns or to make it an execute. No changes are planned here. Small Package is the execute, and 50 cal is significantly shorter than Railguns, hence the differences.
    • Pump Shotgun:
      • There were several comments about the timing and cooldown here, making the combo feel awkward. We will address by shortening the cooldown and adjusting the tray-power's timing to smooth that out.
    • Like x 4
    Mepps, May 3, 2017
    #46

  7. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    I just want to reiterate that any changes mentioned above are *not yet* on the test server.
    Mepps, May 3, 2017
    #47

  8. ChillCat Loyal Player

    SUPER GREAT!!!
    • Like x 2
    ChillCat, May 3, 2017
    #48

  9. hotsizz1e03 Committed Player

    A GIANT STEP in the RIGHT DIRECTION RIGHT HERE!!! IM SUPER EXCITED that its under review..

    Channeled powers are the LEAST FAVORABLE/DESIRABLE powers in the game.. And Munitions is FILLED WITH THEM. However, if executed correctly; giving CHANNELED powers DESIRABLE functionalities compared to BURST powers whether; it be power cost related, Rewarding DMG bonuses, or HIGHER PI additional DAMAGE percentages(up to 30% additional damage after PI is applied, just an example ), or etc... This will make Channeled moves, VIABLE/COMPETITIVE and offer LOADOUT VARIETY.. Not only just for MUNITIONS, but for ALL other POWERS across the board, even ICONICS.. Channeled powers have alot of cool animations but cannot be utilized for optimal gameplay runs..

    The Time and Risk involved to pulling off channeled moves consecutively and CONSISTENTLY is not rewarding(DMG and PACING). Now many of you can say, well you can add the Channeled WHITE MOD(which i think is more support roles) to never be interrupted which is TRUE, but now we dont have that MAX dmg mod and still suffer from the PACING(speed compared to burst). So still 2 negatives.. Now its possible to OFFSET this buy increasing the "ADDITIONAL DAMAGES after PI to say up to 30%"... Or just increasing the DMG based off animation Times.. Idk.. Just throwing suggestions.. But cant wait to test out whatever will improve running these..

    Glad to see we are making GREAT progress.. GOOD LUCK!
    hotsizz1e03, May 3, 2017
    #49 Last edited by hotsizz1e03, May 3, 2017

  10. stärnbock Devoted Player

    Cooldowns:
    • There was some concern about perceived changes to cooldowns and the flow of abilities, specifically channels. Overall, very few cooldown changes were made to Munitions, and the abilities specifically mentioned in this regard have not had their cooldowns changed at all from live. This was intended and we do not plan changes here.
    i think, as AM was a thing, the cooldowns were made to have three powers to do a 12345 loadout, but: the cooldowns do not allow us to rotate only two powers... it is made so you have to rotate between 3 powers still. if the cooldown would be 3 seconds instead of 3.5 seconds, this would be a viable option and would allow for more loadout options, leaving one slot in your loadout for a shield for example or anything else than a third channeled power...

    Pump Shotgun:
    • There were several comments about the timing and cooldown here, making the combo feel awkward. We will address by shortening the cooldown and adjusting the tray-power's timing to smooth that out. or you could let the shotgun shoot two more shots... i dunno, but do shotguns not have 6 pellets in a fully loaded, not customized shaft? also: if the rythm of the additional shots could get smoothed out, that would help the feeling of shooting a PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN a lot... ;)
    stärnbock, May 4, 2017
    #50 Last edited by stärnbock, May 4, 2017

  11. hotsizz1e03 Committed Player

    I saw alot of people post in other forums that they wanted Channeled powers to have HIGH power COST, additional PI dmg/CC, longer cooldown but hits like a MINI supercharge! That would sound GREAT.. something along the lines of 500-700 power cost BUT EXTREME DAMAGE! now THATS WORTH the RISK!!!


    MAKE PUMP SHOTGUN be a spammer.. MUNITIONS VERSION OF JACKHAMMER!

    ROCKET escape seems gimmicky not sure if it needs a buff or CC.. maybe a CC

    MAYBE increase 50cal POWER COST 500-700 and Cooldown to HIT HARD!
    hotsizz1e03, May 4, 2017
    #51

  12. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    Posts above this one have been reviewed by the team.
    Mepps, May 5, 2017
    #52

  13. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    These changes are now on the test server:

    Munitions
    • Active Protection System:
      • Tooltip now states this is part of the shield ability group and part of the Group Power Heal ability group.
    • Chain Grenade Launcher:
      • Tooltip now correctly states this adds the Burning power interaction.
    • 50 Cal:
      • Now properly vulnerable to interrupt while casting.
    • MRE:
      • Tooltip now states this is part of the shield ability group.
    • Pump Action Shotgun:
      • Cooldown is now one second.
      • Animation for the tray power matches the combos.
      • Damage output has been updated to match changes.
    • Rocket Jump:
      • Tooltip now states this is part of the shield ability group and now works with Regenerative shielding tactical mod.
    • Rocket Retreat:
      • Will no longer grant supercharge while in combat when not hitting an enemy.
      • Tooltip now states this is part of the shield ability group and now works with Regenerative Shielding tactical mod.
    • ‘Spolsion:
      • Power interaction tooltip now correctly states this only affects Burning enemies and not Graviton Charged enemies.
    • Survival:
      • Tooltip now states this is part of the shield ability group and now works with Regenerative Shielding tactical mod.
    • Like x 2
    Mepps, May 5, 2017
    #53

  14. stärnbock Devoted Player

    I TAKE EVERYTHING BACK I SAID ABOUT SHOTGUN...
    please, the changes for the shotgun are worse!
    its strange, something isn't right with it... at all!

    you have a shotgun now, basicly with UNLIMITED AMMOOOOO!!!
    well, as long as you have power at least...
    the non-existent cooldown now leads to the impression of
    infinit shots without ever reloading the pumpgun o_O:eek::oops:
    the shotgun needs at least a reload...
    maybe add the animation of RELOAD after the last shot?

    SUGGESTION: Give munitions a new spammabe power: a simple handgranate;
    you could give it the animation of various other spams like fires FIRE BALL.
    and give it a PI.... problem solved?
    stärnbock, May 5, 2017
    #54 Last edited by stärnbock, May 5, 2017

  15. hotsizz1e03 Committed Player



    i made the suggestion of unlimited ammo.. its not supposed to be realistic man, its a game... lol
    • Like x 1
    hotsizz1e03, May 5, 2017
    #55

  16. stärnbock Devoted Player

    sorry, in my oppinion, IT FEELS ODD...!

    i edited my post with a suggested solution to fix it...
    add RELOAD animation after the last shot and its ok, i would say...
    also maybe a napalm granate for an optional spamm attack ^^
    stärnbock, May 5, 2017
    #56 Last edited by stärnbock, May 5, 2017

  17. stärnbock Devoted Player

    now i will be quiet for a while...
    stärnbock, May 5, 2017
    #57

  18. krytine Loyal Player

    When in hollywood movies do the hero ever have to reload?
    • Like x 2
    krytine, May 5, 2017
    #58

  19. Penryn The Gadgeteer

    Bug Report
    Something weird is going on with Munition Supercharge generation. I'm seeing more entries in my Supercharge log than what I'd expect. Here is a demonstration:


    50 Cal
    23 + 26 ticks

    Shrapnel Grenade Launcher
    75 + 11 + 26 ticks

    I don't know what's going on. I don't have any league proficiencies active and none of my Tactical mods involve Supercharge generation.
    • Like x 1
    Penryn, May 5, 2017
    #59

  20. Penryn The Gadgeteer

    Feedback
    I find the new input timings for Pump Action Shotgun to be a bit awkward. You have to do your first melee tap right as you are activating the power. If you wait a fraction of a second too long, you'll do a regular weapon melee attack.

    If you go through your 3x tap sequence too quickly, you'll end up throwing a regular weapon melee attack after the last shotgun tap.

    It might help if the window for doing a melee tap on Pump Action Shotgun was just a small fraction of a second longer.
    Penryn, May 5, 2017
    #60
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