Stats Revamp 1.6: Fire

Some general impressions of the various powers:

Detonate

• good single target damage
• being single target limits its use

Flashpoint

• initial reaction was one of disappointment over the cooldown change, I loved using it as a spam power for tanking
• very nice melee heavy hitter
• cooldown change fairly easy to adjust to
• a melee dps staple

Overheat

• nice range DoT
• would likely only use in a pure range loadout

Immolation

• shield messaging likely to get lost in typical tanking situations
• a tank power, nothing more

Mass Detonation

• outside of a full range scenario, I don't see much use for it
• essentially, it's still Mass Det, for better or worse

Engulf

• the long range multi-target pull that has been highly requested
• like the utility it provides in solo/ duo content
• decent overall spam power, though it does not use or set up the PI

Stoke Flames

• don't see the use as a DPS power
• a tanking staple

Backdraft

• damage seems slightly low for the power cost
• good utility pull
• not likely to use as a DPS
• still a tanking staple in most instances

Fireburst

• still a good spam power
• not sure how long you could keep a Fireburst spam rotation going in real world conditions without a troll cursing your name

Fireball

• single target PI applicator
• limited damage
• very poor spam power, likely one of if not the worst in the revamp

Fireball Barrage

• received a sizable buff, it's actually worth using now
• will be my go to supercharge

Meteor Strike

• range PI applicator that also builds supercharge
• considering how other powers ended up, nothing to complain about here

Burning Determination

• no breakout = boo
• no PI = double boo
• were it not for the serious healing capabilities it would be worthless
• as it is, still very much a tanking staple

Fiery Weapon

• weapon buff.... yawn

Inferno

• no longer gives an initial hit?
• good range DoT and PI applicator

Absorb Heat

• locks you in place for what feels like an eternity
• don't see how a power like this has a place in the game anymore
• Suggestion: at the very least make it mobile

Snuff Out

• standard finisher
• has its uses

Wildfire

• very nice range heavy hitter
• a range DPS staple

Enflame

• good melee DoT
• inferior to Inferno only because it's a straight melee power

Meteor

• with Strike providing SC I don't see the point

Flame Cascade

• has utility as a juggle power
• fairly worthless in its current state, high power cost with average damage and an odd cooldown
• Suggestion: reduce power cost to 100 with a suitable damage reduction
• Suggestion: reduce cooldown to 0.5 seconds

Volcanic Calamity

• functionally it's fine
• not a fan of 100% supercharges

Spontaneous Combustion

• it's either bugged or I'm missing something
• as it is now, a truly horrid power

Other thoughts

• fire benefits greatly from a single unified PI, you are truly free to build the power however you want free of the mess of multiple PI's
• though only tested as a DPS centric hybrid, I love the battle-tanking capabilities, please do not change this
• as with most powers in the revamp, I see having multiple armories as being a huge bonus in the overall functionality of the power

ok wasnt on test yet will do later today but reading through all those comments none has mentioned "blue flame", is it still here or gone?

the point about burnout having 0 power cost is balance since all tank powers got the same treatment but why tanks get a special treatment compared to other roles idk and could make a difference in pvp later on...

Neither of the powers you mentioned are going to be spammed in a real situation xD To use them in solo instances they'd need to have a 100 power cost which would trash the damage and in raid situations you don't use either because of the cast time. CC wise, I doubt any tanks will use them, which means I'm assuming you're using it for dps cc, in which case I say go ahead, it's just going to get the damage nerfed again when you ask for cc to get added so both of them will be even more useless than they already are.

I DIDN'T SEE OR HEAR IT.

My first impression, at least with Fire, is that that instant cast abilities are still way more better than channeled ones. Is like you guys only take into consideration power cost at the time to set up the base damage numbers and forget about the time spend to pull out this channeled moves. Is a similar problem that i had with long weapon combos and Celestial long imput combos.

If you guys want that moves like Flame Cascade, Fireburst, Meteor be competitive and real options for DPS you need to buff them.

Fireball can stay single target, we have Engulf as a Multitarget spam option. It would be nice if Engulf get a PI leverage tho.

Fire should have the turtle ability. IMO
That was the one tank I would direct new players towards so that they could get the feel for tanking without killing the healer and eventually the controller. Turtling helps new players learn the fundamentals of being a tank without using too much power & taking too much damage.

Maybe its a bug? anyway...if it is intended, also would like to know why they remove it.

How is Fireburst even considered spammable?
It has a long animation setup that is overly interruptible.
By the time you get to hit anything; everyone else's spams have killed everything .

From what I read, everything looks pretty good. Just Fireburst and Flame Cascade need some changes. Hopefully in the end it turns into a fun, viable battle tanking power. I'm trusting you Moja.

Anyway, I was really hoping that polished animations meant they were changing some animations back into the OG animations. Just out of curiosity, do the devs still even have those animations or were they deleted for good?

You would direct new Players to fire? Fire is actually a harder power to learn to tank with. It got to the point where if you were fire you were kicked from groups. I know because I was kicked plenty of times before the instance even began.

I am glad turtling is a thing of the past. For far too long tanks were just merely damage sponges . Jumping in taunting enemies and holding block was never fun. It's part of the reason the tank population was so poor. Nobody wanted to do it because it had too much responsibility and wasn't too fun. I have been tanking since day one of the game and I can't really see why anyone wants turtling to be a thing. If you have the option to have great mitigation while you are actively playing why would anyone want to limit their options?

Try using it as a burst dot power instead of cast time power like burst and casecade. Flashpoint/spontaneous combustion/wildfire/stoke flames work amazingly i would have to say fire plays so smooth in both dps and tank stance

I'll give that a try. I was so accustomed to fire, that I felt all it needed was to eliminate the interrupt on Fire Burst to have a wonderful power. (and maybe speed up that animation by removing that hand twirl ).

OK I tried it. While it does some damage; it does not have that Fluid Motion that makes Fire a lot of fun.
It plays like all the other powers, and that sucks. I don't want to play fire if I'm stuck in 1 position shooting powers. I want to move smoothly and constantly.

If all you did was hold block you have the wrong idea on what tank is and should be. Tanks first off should never just hold block especially fire tanks whose most important task was to farm immunities using lunges blocks and counters to make you a solid tank. Next off i cant say im a fan of forced battle tanking you shouldnt feel punished for trying to farm immunities by using block or even when big hit are thrown. Its the same way i felt about trolls not being able to double tic pot same goes for tanks who dont have to actively farm blues anymore,taken the one skillfull thing of that role and threw it away.
Aside from that note fire as a tank feels strong,smooth, and fun to play. Im still a fan of lasso but i can see many times where i will utilize engulf. I like the 60sec cooldown on ef especially considering how fast supers can be built

I know what you mean this version of fire plays like wm fire did compare to t4 double tick firebust fire and advanced mechanics fire. I only got to play for a short time with it didnt develope a loadout yet but those were powers i found did decent in damage role. I want to post a loadout later and compare with others, but i will say i think fire is doing comparable damage to other good powers ill see more later

What if the new Fireburst animation were like Starfire's Fireburst animation? Her Fireburst is instant.

Having tried the changes in both of the roles I'm really liking most of them! There are few things I think should be looked at:

1. As a tank, Why is Burning Determination healing so much higher than Stoke Flames healing? I was getting total of 45000 healing from Burning Determination but only total of 12000 from Stoke Flames but they both have identical power costs. They do have different cooldowns but I don't understand why 50% longer cooldown would mean 4 times more healing.

2. As a tank, Absorb Heat doesn't seem to give any healing regardless of whether enemy is on fire or not but it says it does healing in its description.

3. When using Flaming Cascade I got stuck in the animation of holding your arm towards the enemy a few times and during that time Flaming Cascade was red on the tray and only thing I was able to do is move while my character was locked at pointing the sparring target with arm.

4. Spontaneous Combustion damages all sparring targets with the first hit but the additional 3 explosions that trigger from hitting the target only hit the sparring targets around the target. I think it should hit the target also because otherwise it will be a very weak ability to have against a single target fights like most of the bossfights are. Also the additional explosions seem to trigger from an amount of hits but I think it would be much better if the explosions would always trigger from 1 single hit but with the effect being able to occur only every 1.5 seconds instead of after certain amount of hits because otherwise the abilities that hit multiple times like Flaming Cascade and Fireburst will be in advantage when using Flaming Cascade over the single hit abilities like Fireball and Mass Detonation.

***Playing as 190CR DPS fighting randoms in Typhon's open world. Might=15,909 Prec=13,469 Power=28.231. Crit Attack chance and damage maxxed and all other SP put into Might with Oly mods.

Right off the bat I notice there is no way to sustain PFtT as power regen comes primarily from weapon use. Currently I can use AM in Typhon's and FC until my fingers get tired of pressing buttons. Using any loadout on Test I'm out of Power within 4 or 5 casts. While I get power from MOBs I kill in this instance, running something like an Alert could be troublesome for PFtT without a troller. Also, there's no decent spammable power.


Another aspect of this is the cooldown timers on many of the powers is far out of whack, so much so that a player will actually have to slow their playstyle just for the timers. Combining this with the trouble in getting power back is going to make playing a Might-base style tough.

If you're going to keep the power regen relegated to weapon damage then you'll need to lower the cost on powers in DPS role (unless you expect everyone to go Dual Pistols and just spam their Power back).

Engulf is pretty sweet as our new pull, need to have Fireball's taunt added to it though. Change Fireball's taunt to knockdown.

I was initially put off with the timers on Immolation and Burning Determination (18 seconds) but then I realized that their effects last that long as well (at least Immo's does). While both are incredibly handy, the lack of damage (aside from Burning) relegates them more to being emergency use only than anything else.

Flame Cascade - Cut .5 seconds on the timer. Having it be interruptble is bad enough but having it non-spammable on top of that makes it fairly worthless.

Detonate - See "Flame Cascade". The thing that makes this worse is that it seems to be a single-target FC.

Fireburst - Does good damage but the charge-up on it needs to be cut in half.

Snuff Out: drop the timer from 4.4 to 3 seconds.

Mass Det - still feels weak, especially for the animation time and interruptability.

Spontaneous Combustion: Not bad as is but needs a juggle or cooldown dropped to 3 seconds (from 6) to make it of any interest.

Overheat: Good damage over time but the timer on it and the cooldown need to be cut.

Meteor: 6s seconds for lackluster damage and a Burning effect? Pass.

I like that I can still use Stoke Flames or Burning Determination when Controlled, but not having a Cleanse in either (or anything in the Fire DPS loadout) sucks.

Overall the longer cooldown timers and the lack of power regen from using powers slows gameplay down quite a bit (having done group content so if Raid and Alert mobs give power back, please let me know).

As this powerset currently exists it favors a balanced or primarly-weapon-based style far more than PFtT.

BD seems to be a mini Eternal Flame now in that it's roughly a 1:1 return from damage taken (at least that's what I got as a DPS in Typhon's).

Stoke is a HoT but it's a weak sister to BD.

Both effects last the entirety of their cooldowns (meaning that aside from the split second it takes to recast them you could keep them going indefinitely).

I would rather see their timers matched because it seems like a Fire Tank would need to keep both active throughout an encounter (haven't tried tanking it yet though, so I could be waaay offbase).

I found it fun, if you liked active you could go atomic. Current build forces to play actively completely changing to how fire was meant to be played. You had to play smart to stay alive. Know when to cycle BD/SF/Burnout, when to counter.
The build on test lets you stand still and spam powers once in a while completely eliminating the need to think strategically.
I wanted to do it to the point of having all tank powersets (excluding ice) at my disposal at endgame level. It's the most fun role, don't push your agenda over every player.