Stats Revamp 1.5: Celestial

ScH and HcS was the only things keeping celestial on par with other powers. The larger combos will need a buff in order for cele to stay competitive, otherwise we'll have another situation like we do with nature...

Not being trying to be negative but that's just simply the observation from everyone else I ask that has ran parses with various loadouts

At the end of the day players will use the power that does the most damage plain and simple. After really thinking and discussing it with others even in a duo or solo we'd most likely still use the power that did more damage over a power that had a cc affect cause if i really needed some cc i could just use my weapon for a quick cc if i had no powers that provided it.

Maybe for solos and duos some powers that have cc affects will be used but in a raid or alert where damage matters to people they will always go with the one that does more damage. On one hand having powers with cc options opens different loadouts for small content but then in another way narrows down what people will use for raids so it goes both ways.

I like the old way where powers just had cc affects and damage wasn't tied to that. Maybe for pvp damage vs cc should be a balancing tool but in pve i really don't see the point. It kinda does more harm then good and also makes balancing and good variety a bit trickier.

On the subject of cc one thing i would like to see done is that in alerts npc's take no cc from dps's at all. That would make taking a troll or a tank much more valuable. I'd like if we could do everything we can to deter 4 dps face rolling in alerts. Also i'll sneak this in to cause it will play along side of npc's taking no cc from dps, please get rid of role-less buffs!!!! Alerts are a good place where lesser players can craft their support roles better but with the role-less buffs you don't need any role but dps and sometimes a troll so players are forced to dps so they don't get to learn in smaller content they are tossed right into raids to try and learn there and then kicked out if they are no good.

Alerts should be a stepping stone to raids where you can learn your role in a group activity but not immediately get thrown in the deep end to fail. We need to start taking steps to help players get better with this update and role-less buffs do nothing but teach players to just stack dps and the game will heal them. I want to see more of a group effort with this update not just a bunch of dps centered stuff.

Sorry for going a bit off topic but it kinda went with CC so it just happened.

The only thing that was to good was ScH HcS, all the other stuff was a bit low imo. I'll have to get on and try some things with the new changes before i can say anything else though.

There is some merit to the argument that DPS would always prefer damage over CC. People are not used to the concept of trading control for damage because CC has just been an afterthought for most of this game's life. The fact that CC is 99.9% irrelevant to DPS and Healers in a raid is testament to this.

Honestly, if I'm playing DPS I really wouldn't care if all the abilities had CC or none of them had CC. It'd make no difference to me in a raid. All I'd care about is that you increased the damage of x ability for y reason.

Oh and i just wanted to say i'm liking the effort you have put into communicating with us in all the threads this time around.

RcW spam is on par with ScH/HcS spam now, but you are right, adding anything else is just damage loss right now with celest.
Pretty dissapointing.

RcW was not on par with ScH/HcS with my clipping speed. It was the closest out of what I tried but still not even remotely close. If you can get 40-42k using RcW on 3 targets for 10s or 30s, then you're probably using voodoo magic.

what is RCW?

Retribution combo Wither.

What´s your might at? are you using Home turf mods?

I want to say 19374 if I remember right. And yes, I use restore power for the weapon, escalating might, reserve tank, and max damage. I have full might oly mods, oly gens, and 175 in might with full crits. If you have less stats, you'd prob want to aim for like 37-39 instead of 40-42.

I think i have less because i was testing on my first toon on the revamp, which has less SP and no Oly mods tho.

The oly mods are at the bottom of the reg mod vendor so you should be able to upgrade and test once the servers come back up.

IMO DL and plague combos should be the strongest due to them having the longest cast time. I also wouldn't mind smite and haunt taking a damage decrease to bring back it's CC. The cc is beneficial for solo, Duo and open world content.

For the new or below average player, or low cr low sp and poor modded players, many times those CC moves may be the difference in surviving an encounter and not surviving.

Obviously on live I will have more than what is on test, but we have to consider the part of the community that relied on such abilities to get through content or go back and adjust all solos to accommodate the lack of players having cc abilities

Just an uneducated question I have. So, we can determine currently that RcW and ScH/HcS are the best damage dealers for Celestial at the moment.

However, how do we quantify on the sparring targets the effectiveness of PcDL and DLcP when the sparring targets never fall and give the additional Glyph which would provide more damage?

Or, can we see this quantified in some way?

I disagree (assuming the HcS/ScH spam will be the optimal rotation). There are other abilities with CC for solo/duo content. If getting CC costs DPS it pretty much means you want whatever your raid rotation is to have no CC (for pretty much the reasons Crappy mentioned above). If it doesn't require a DPS reduction to get CC, sure, whatever, but if it does, do not want. Sounds like it does, so either do not want, or want another rotation to be brought up to the optimal level.

Spord as a 5 year goin on 6 year VET, i disagree.. Celestial Animations are too slow and clunky. Why arent the longest animations doing the MOST DAMAGE??? I can Spam 3 Smites and still do more DMG then any long slow animated celestial power..
ONCE AGAIN, YOU CANNOT GIVE A TRUCK THE SAME HORSEPOWER as a SMALLER CAR and call it balance... The heavy(animation times) weight HAVE TO BE ACCOUNTED FOR! smh

LONGER ANIMATIONS MUST FEEL REWARDING.. You guys CLEARLY understand this, thus you have the same idea for weapon combos.. Whats the difference?

Well now that the over performing abilities are fixed up people testing can now show some data versus other powersets and we can continue to adjust. I don't like to make too many changes all at once.

Define data. I have a list of the reads that me, crappy, and madrabbit got as the different powersets besides an updated one for elec precision spec and rage after it just got nerfed. If you're looking for videos of different powersets, I'm not posting 30 different sets of parses but I can show celestial still in the 40s with smite/haunt and then link 2 old videos of quantum and earth at 39-42. Celestial's damage is fine rn with smite/haunt, its the fact that nothing else in celestial's arsenal competes with that damage/sec wise that's the problem and the only video I can think of to show is literally a 1 minute video of using divine light or plague or the other combos and then comparing said time to the smite/haunt equivalent and then showing the damage difference, which is something you guys could've done. I'm lost on what you're looking for.

I just want to make sure people are wanting increases on damage based on Celestial's performance versus other power sets and not just within Celestial. I understand videos take a lot of time but if people could post their rotations/loadouts and speak to how those compare to using other power sets it is helpful. The issue could be that all of Celestial except Divine Light / Plague are too good.