Stats Revamp 1.4 - Rage Feedback

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Moja, Feb 24, 2017.

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  1. Winter Sabel Dedicated Player


    How are the combos for atomic working?
    • Like x 1
  2. Winter Sabel Dedicated Player

    I actually thought that you guys were going to keep rage more in line with atomics power cost.
    With the limited choices that rage has with combos the 200/200/200 outrage makes it a hard pill to swallow.

    Rage should have two or three combos that are on par with atomic combos.
    One more melee combo & one more ranged combos. If that is possible.

    Then you can leave outrage set to 200/200/200 for the big hitter. :)

    I will add that one hit with a combo is causing two tics on the hit counter.
    Is that causing issues with power consumption?
    I ask that because the power bar is all over the place using outrage.
    The power use for outrage will be fine for 2 combos and then jump almost half the bar on the 3rd or 4th combo.
    • Like x 1
  3. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    Oh you're right. I thought for a second they were 200 base as well. Got it mixed up with HL.
  4. Infamous Hacker Active Player

    If it MUST be one of these options then reduce the cost...

    Its not at all Ideal, but the combos cost too much power for Rage and Hard Light. As long as Using the combos is still balanced with Hybrid play style (power and damage) im ok with this change.


    All combo powers should have the same options across the board as far as power, damage, number of ranged options, and number of melee options.
  5. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    Don't really understand why we can't have our cake and eat it too. Rage melee combos are already difficult to pull off because you have to make physical contact with the enemies, resulting in having to worry about your own safety while other powers can achieve maximum damage potential from a safe distance, melee combos should get a "hey sorry you have to sniff the bosses butt to do sufficient damage" power reduction just for that.

    I understand the devs want to maintain balance via tradeoffs, but sometimes you need to be more situational and look at it from a "how applicable is it" PoV
    • Like x 4
  6. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    I just want to leave this here for now incase any changes are being made or considered as we speak. Dreadful blasts damage CANNOT be lowered in the slightest bit even to accommodate a lower power cost. As rage range sits now its barley hanging in the range that other good powers sit and any change that results in lowering the damage will knock rage down a peg and if we want things to be as close as balanced as we can get doing that would be a mistake.

    I'm going to have some more details on what i think we can do to better rage both power cost and damage wise but first i want to record some footage and grab some data sheets so the things i present have factual data so other players and the devs can see clearly what im talking about. I should have everything up later tonight.
    • Like x 2
  7. SasquaT Dedicated Player

    Ofcourse leave it how it is but on live server .

    Outrage is not my kind of drama i dont use melee but im happy that you might add some range options .
    What im warry about is you forcing us to use 5 powers as survival mechanic in tank role so we got only one spot for game control mechanic ( pulls / taunts ) which make rage totaly not playable at raids like DWF(e) when we got 2 bosses and tons of adds coming from each side .
    Other tanks to survive need to use 5 powers as well or its just a rage curse ?
    We need tank but dont take rage he got only one pull and no taunts in loadsout or one taunts and no pull .I already see this drama coming.
    I already asked about block brake / groupe immute .
    Can we have just one ire with 7-8 sec coldown ( same as SP ) so instead of ferocity we can use extra pull / taunts ?
  8. spack2k Steadfast Player

    so what about removing the CC effect of Extra Measure and by doing that u can reduce the power cost without reducing the damage, it has been done on light by spord.

    another effect would be that now u can replace outrage 2nd combo "tap" to "hold" like most rage player prefer.
    • Like x 1
  9. DarkAya Dedicated Player

    Something has to be done though, right now Outrage =\= PftT.
    I know live and test are two different stories but what's on test is unplayable, why can't it be more like atomic?
    • Like x 1
  10. L T Devoted Player

    Since the stated goal of the revamp is that one controller should only be possible with very skilled groups, there's nothing wrong with these results. In fact, the entire group should have struggled with power, and if they didn't, there's something wrong with controlling. On Live a group of entirely 166s would have a tough time beating Olympus. Most players were 174 or 175 when it came out. That's probably a topic for a different thread though.

    Rage has always had a reputation as a power-hungry tank. These changes make it more so. They need to use 3 powers in 8 seconds, instead of 2. The changes to self heals make Rage much more like Atomic-- since your damage out heals you, blocking becomes a loss and you absolutely need to be regenerating your health constantly.
    • Like x 1
  11. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    What about Reduce the power cost of Outrage to 200/150/150 and move the power cost to Revenge from 100/100 to 150/150 ?

    That would helps us to spend and regen power more effectively over time. Right now Outrage with 200/200/200 is that big drain which makes our power useage curve to fluctuate while we regen power at an more even rate.
    • Like x 1
  12. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    How about to have a decreasing power cost system while mantaining the damage output? i mean 200/150/100.
    This should be apply it to HL, since the power cost to do the combos are too high.

    [IMG]
    • Like x 1
  13. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    We need to get a definite set number from Devs what kind of damage is PftT supposed to do consuming X amount of power per set amount of time.

    For example,
    Ice's PftT pretty much consist of casting Wintry Tempest every 12 sec which is 300 power cost then spamming Arctic Gust which costs 100 power for 5 sec channel. That means that Ice will pretty much only need to consume 100 power every 5 secs. If that is correct I dont think Ice would need to spec additional power at all.

    Rage casting Galling Erruption - every 12 sec then comboing Outrage and Revenge will constantly stay above 200 power per second sec peaking at 300 when Extra Measure is clipped with tray Revenge and when Revenge spin is clipped with tray Outrage.

    One similarity is that Ice like Rage dont have max distance ranged PftT option since Frost Blast has 3 sec cooldown and cant be used 2 times in a row just how we cant use Dreadful Blast 2 times in a row because of the longer cooldown.
  14. Winter Sabel Dedicated Player

    There is definitely something wrong with rage.

    Using CR116 @ 13k power............( I use these power stats as a base to test with every power )

    I can PffT with every power @ CR116 @ 13k power except rage using 100 powers

    Rage is using too much power somewhere.
    I think it is the double ticks on the hit counter are causing extra power consumption.


    The cool down of 6 seconds for eviscerating chain is too long. This needs to at least be cut down to 1-1.5sec.

    The cool down for revenge is too long an needs to be set @ 1-1.5 as well.


    SIDE NOTE:
    Eviscerating chain should be considered being used as a taunt / single pull / stun like lasso in iconic powers.
    Doing this will open up rage blast for something else like a ranged combo power like ram, light blast or fan on HL.

    More feed back later........... I have a few V day things left to do.... :p
  15. hotsizz1e03 Committed Player


    why not just Make the RAGE combos be 300>free.. whats the big deal?

    I saw a video last night, where there were 3 trolls and rage was still out of power.. The rage player was spec into POWER.. That cant be intended for Rage to be that power hungry...
    • Like x 1
  16. Karasawa Loyal Player

    I just want to comment on this briefly. If something does a big chunk of damage, it shouldn't be free. An ability needs RISK (whether that be power cost or counter vulnerability or both) to be truly REWARDing. Risk-Reward.

    I don't want to hear the argument "but it was always free before!" Just because it was free before doesn't mean it wasn't broken. The game on Live is struggling now because of poor decisions like that made in the past. We're here now because the Devs are trying to fix the mistakes of the past.

    So let's just be real shall we? (And this isn't necessarily directed at you bud, but just people in general.) By all means, criticize away (as long as you're doing it constructively). But please, I don't want to see any of this "I know how to make videogames better than videogame developers" crap. I get annoyed by that at my own work when clients try to tell me how to do my job. It's like, why don't YOU spend $200k in student loans and years of schooling then get back to me on that, lol.
    • Like x 4
  17. hotsizz1e03 Committed Player


    nah i feel you.. i always respect your opinion.. I tell you why i prefer 300>free vs 200>200.. trust me, i wont say "but it was always free before!" lol

    With that being said.. Rage is a momentum power, similar to all combo powers. I feel if you make the intial cost 300>free(outrage, E chain, etc.) Then the total power cost would be 300 vs 400(currently)

    I think its harder to spend more power to initiate a combo vs maintain a combo. When you are down to a fourth of your power, you can get off an outrage successfully with my 300>free proposal. I think bcuz combo powers kind of have a slightly faster start up time then DOTS but much slower than BURST, that in order to achieve balance you have let combos gain momentum, and also ENCOURAGE MOMENTUM COMBOS. With 200>200 you can use the first power and not be able to pay for the second one, which RUINS MOMENTUM..

    Now my sugesstion for DREADFUL BLAST is to be 100>100>200or300.. The first two hits being the weaker parts of the damage, and the last combo to be the BIG HIT.... once again promoting MOMENTUM.. combos are MOMENTUM based POWERS, however you slice it.


    Lastly, i want to comment on telling people what to do on their job.. I know this wasnt meant towards me SPECIFICALLY, but me PERSONALLY, i DO NOT EVER, tell anyone how to do their job. On this forum we have here, i make suggestions and make sense of what has been given to us to play.. I think majority of the players understand alot of things are broken and we just want it fixed. Like i said, i love my devs, i would never disrespect them, but alot of things are BROKEN, CONFUSING, and INCONSISTENT. These are the areas i apply logics and make SUGGESTIONS. That is all..
    • Like x 1
  18. Winter Sabel Dedicated Player

    I think you bumped your head. That is not only a bad idea that is a very bad idea.
    300 powers will make it impossible to combo with. You need to go back and look at how power regen works.

    There is something wrong with rage power consumption. I have tested the 100 combo powers and I cannot Pfft with any of them.
  19. hotsizz1e03 Committed Player



    I hear u.. I KNOW THEIR IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH RAGE POWER CONSUMPTION. lol that i dont disagree with.. But essentially Rage power consumption is x2 or x3.. So if it cost 200 to initiate combo it will cost you a TOTAL of 400-600 power.. By making it 300>free is on par with other BURST powers that ONLY cost 300.. And you're saying 100 power cost is too much, as well as assuming its ONLY a rage thing, then you arent spec for power.. Any other NON-combo power that uses 100 can probably spam it 10-20x times before running out of power.. Rage doesnt consume more power than any other power at a 100 power cost.
  20. Shark Dental Devoted Player


    I think Rage's power consumption has to do with the natural flow of the combos. It's an issue, but at the same time I wouldn't want the powers to be slowed down. With Frenzy, for example, each follow up comes at .5 seconds and costs 100. Same with Revenge, you can do both parts of the combo in .9 seconds. So in 30 seconds, you've already performed 60 100 cost moves. I've specced into power and checked it out, I can basically get through those 30 seconds without running out of power, but soder still isn't off of CD.
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