More Stats Revamp 1.1

3 debuffs are great for 2nd boss of GoM.

phoenix should be getting lunged to stop their healing mechanic and I'm not aware of any bosses in that fight that would need a damage debuff besides the harpy's special move.

I'm starting to think the one's who have a problem with the changes may not know what controlling is lol, they can't know.

Not necessarily but instead of giving tanks a power to draw aggro they should be givin a threat stat and the more you specc in it the more aggro you draw, this way the only roles you will see manipulating the battleground is the controllers and those of high dominance.

Any power a Tank uses draws aggro. No point for a stat.

But that's the issue, there should be no power that cc npc but controllers, if tanks want to draw in npcs than they must meet the required threat stat imo. so controllers while stuns them they will see that tank with high threat specced a threat regardless.

No thanks. Tanks need to CC just as much as Controllers. Tanks need to pull and stun. If we had the ability to select targets like traditional MMOs, it would be much simpler but we dont have that here. Tanks need to make the pulls in order to get the aggro and pull the targets where they are suppose to be. Once the Tank has everything, then Controllers come in with their Stuns. If the Tanks goes in and does a pull and at the same time a Controller does a stun and that add doesnt go to the Tank, thats where we have an issue.

What do you mean "select targets like traditional MMOs"? Do you mean on PC? On the PS3/4, while holding the targeting button, you can tap left or right on the direction pad to select targets. I've never played on PC so I wouldn't know there.

hollow-not trying to argue but let me know how many non fully geared Fire tanks can lunge Phoenix while taking Minotaur and Harpy damage. Maybe your "elite" group can do it but the majority of players can't. But this is all inconsequential if you never have people start and instance when the troll is not ready and hasn't switched debuffs. That happens a lot.

As a Gadgets troll, I enjoy the PI I get from Cryofoam and Gauss Grenade, but I miss out on my P Dart as a result. Luckily I have time to go change back prior to the final fight so I can get my mass stun in for the adds.

For me it would be better if dc removes taunt moves and replace it with a stat, because it seems a bit clutter to have two roles ccing, when you can just give it to one which is controllers. being creative is making more uniqueness amongst roles imo.

General question:

why wouldn't you want POT to stack. Heals over time stack. if you are trying to encourage 2 of each role wouldn't it make more sense to have POT stack so if you want more power having that second troll will give you more power. the only reason most groups run hard content with 2 healers in lieu of 2 trolls is the stacking ability of heals

They'd have to nerf the hell out of it otherwise it'd promote 2 energy battery's.

Not enough power consumption to allow PoT to stack. I wouldn't mind it in all honesty, back in the day healers used to compete with each other for most healing out just like DPS do for damage, trolls never got that option cause the one that threw pot always had most power out. Allowing them to stack would probably bring that competition back (I know I know, ignore the damn scoreboard), competition is what makes playing a role fun for most people and strives them to improve on it.

For now though we just need to hope this update at least pushes two trolls in raids.

Phoenix is based on proximity aggro. Not only can you separate Phoenix away from the bosses since you're going to have 2-3 tanks for GoM/GoME but that lunge can be done by anyone in the group. So as long as phoenix and harpy aren't right next to each other and the harpy just so happens to do their aoe move at the same time, any person whether dps troll or healer can lunge the phoenix and walk away to stop it's healing mechanic. The phoenix in reg can even be held by a non-tank role if they're blocking.

For me, as long as all stuns are updated to allow tanks to pull them, I'll be happy. Right now on live, tanks can pull some stunned/encased adds, but not all. Making stuns/encase from any power pullable by tanks would be a much appreciated improvement.

yeah its a PC thing. Using the Mouse button to click on the target you want to focus. Even on my controller its tough to just "select" the target I want to hit.

Again. No thanks. Taunts are already part of the Tank Powers and should stay that way and not be relied upon with a Stat. Controllers are there to provide CCing for harder stuns than Tanks have especially if a target is running to the group and away from the Tank. Controller stuns it and it allows the tank time to grab it and bring it back to the fold. Tanks and Controllers can work hand in hand in CCing if they are paying attention.

If you want a stat to provide taunting, well Dominance already provides that

I like what you did there lol

But my idea would avoid all that clutter you speak of.

Again stuns is not the only method of cc, so stunning is not always ideal when your running with controller, you also said harder stuns, but according to somewhere on test server it states that tanks pull will override any stuns/levitations etc. from controllers, the need to focus on stuns as a controller will be obsolete if tanks pulls overides it, right?

If the developers really wanted to emphasize the Controllers as the controlling class, then Tanks should not be allowed to stun at all. Just like it is on live. A majority of the tank powers (not weapon attack), if not all of them, do not apply an actual stun effect. The proof is seen in the combat out log. Tanks mainly knock down, knock back, pull, juggle, etc. Only Ice encased in ice blocks and roots & those 2 fall under the dom duration mechanic which is on live.

The only control effects Tanks really need is the physical pull for obviously gathering NPCs. I'd also accept what they have on live anyway with knockdowns to reduce damage they take in even though it really should be a Controller suppressing the NPCs in that manner to reduce damage in on the tank which actually puts in the Controllers in an engaging position. Tank pulls should register on all Controller control effects so they can round them up. What happens to be a conflict is that NPCs gain immunity. In some cases from the tanks own CCing starting the immunity countdown. Coordination from both roles is the major reason CCing between them is sloppy. It's the fault of the slow moving tank just as much as a reckless Controller with far range powers.

Even so, tank taunts and a majority of NPCs, which actually perform melee combos, move towards the tank anyway even when they are immune. So 80 to 90% of the time, the physical grouping is just their to speed up the burning process. This is evident boss fights. They melee. They cannot be physically controlled in raids.

Applying the actual stun effect is what actually kept controlling unique to Controllers. They are the only class that actually applies a Stun that benefits from the dom duration mechanic on LIVE. There's just too much confusion and misinformation players have to actually give feedback on this subject comparing it to test. There is infact a nerf from what Controllers can do on live versus on test. Get 1000 dom on test and just look at how long your stun duration extended compared to a very low amount and then compared to Live.

Points are, only Controller stuns (along with non broken roots, levitations, and encasements that were not hit) are magnified to last a base of 15 seconds plus your dominance on live. Tanks do not stun on live so they are not unique with CC. Broken powers that stun like Nature's Harvest obviously apply that effect but what most players don't realize is that the stun last for like 6 seconds. It is no where near as long as a Controllers base duration after 1 cast. The stuns, and overall control effects, from these powers are ignoring NPC Will Power in raid content and are obviously broken. The developers never prioritized their fix. NPCs in solo's duos and some alerts (even trash level/minion NPC types) have no will power and can be controlled without any dom. So powers from any powerset that work on them is actually intended.

They should keep the control effects function on live and just transition it over to test. That is what really makes Controller unique in CCing. If they want to reduce overall CC duration from controllers, the same 500 dom points for 1 second mechanic should still apply but just remove the base duration of 12 to 15 seconds. this way they keep the duration of how long our stuns last in our hands. Stuns should remain controller exclusive. On test, a tank can apply the same types of CC effects a controller can minus levitation. They are not making anything unique to Controllers on test. One thing I will say is they should remove the hard programming for roots on some stuns that do not allow physical pulling, or atleast allow tanks to physically overwrite it. Just to repeat, it is actually NPC profiles that also contribute to conflicts with Tanks & Controllers CCing on live.