Apples and Oranges

Discussion in 'War Room (Powers, Artifacts, & Builds)' started by MEBegnalsFan, Mar 26, 2015.

  1. MEBegnalsFan Devoted Player

    I love seeing all of these post on comparing X and Y power. Or comparing Y power to Quantum. Seriously let's stop with these comparison test, they do little other than cause some forum arguement for no reason.

    Instead, we should focus our efforts on issues with powers, why they need adjustment and where.

    When I look back at the forum, the HL community cared little about what Gadgets was doing. Instead, they focused on how to improve HL and they really stayed focus on that. The end results, HL got a really nice update.

    Instead of coming and complaining about Quantum, start threads about how to fix the power you are using. Such as what Earth players are recommending with AfterShock AM or improvements to the Pet AM. These are the ideas that the developers use to adjust powers, not the complaints or comparison.

    If you want to do comparison, leave that for in game. If you want your power fixed, let's make it an open and honest discussion about why it needs to be fixed and how to fix it.
    • Like x 10
  2. Biester New Player

    How to "fix" my powerset? No, it would just make more sense to bring quantum in line with every other powerset than to go through another year or so of "balancing" to bring other powersets up to par with quantum. Why ask for anything extra to be done with our powersets when it's simply one powerset that stands above the rest and for seemingly no substantial reasoning behind it?

    I'm done with it, though. I'm gonna go rage melee some **** and enjoy this update. Here's to another year or so of "balancing", awesome work dev team. You seem to really know what you're doing with this balancing fiasco.
  3. Derio 15000 Post Club

    Its an ongoing cycle that was restarted with quantum. Now celestial and Rage are in line. Now they just need to go back and adjust earth, sorcery, mental, fire , gadgets( increased range option), HL( I know like for the 50th time), electricity, nature, ice. But they are almost done.
    • Like x 3
  4. Biester New Player

    I'd say about half-way done. One year of balancing has led to this so another year will bring about the revolutionary balance that started this whole fiasco. Unless they decide to make one of the powers you mentioned slightly stronger, then we will be right back to square one. Job security.
  5. DarkNovaBlaze Dedicated Player

    In terms of AM, I think HL, Gadgets, Ice, Rage, Nature and Electricity are all pretty close. Quantum and Celestial need to brought down slightly - not too much. Sorcery, Mental, Fire and Earth's AM all need to be seriously looked at.
  6. Saybro Committed Player

    I would prefer them to buff the rest instead of nerfing. Just stop bringing new stuff in until what is already in is fixed, in line, balanced.
  7. NerdGeist Well-Known Player

    Although I agree people are fozusing more on qq-ing about "OMG QUANTUM IS OP OMGWTFBBQ!" rather than discussing means and ways to improve other power and solve unnefective mechanics; when it comes to the balance issues I'll have to repeat myself, on a thing I replied on another post: It's much faster and way easier to balance ONE power than to raise all other to put em on par with it. So, makes much more sense to ask Quantum to be nerfed, rather than asking everything else to be improved. Like they don't have enough trouble already.

    Sure, a lot of thing on other powers still have to be improved/fixed/caredwithtenderlove, but really, don't try and shove arguments to convince me it's fair that a dude with around 15 less CR and half my SP deals more than double my damage.
  8. Biester New Player

    So instead of a simple nerf of one power which would take a short time, you'd rather them go to every powerset individually and figure out which powers to buff in order to reach that one op powerset's potential? This is exactly what DOESN'T need to happen. In that process of buffing other powersets, one will receive a buff that puts it over top of the powerset that was the baseline for the revamps. With your logic, they would have to go back and rebuff all other powersets once again to make them equal to this new powerset's damage. This is a ridiculous notion.
  9. NerdGeist Well-Known Player

    You forgot to mention that then it's time to Munitions to enter the line. And after that, rinse and repeat.
    • Like x 1
  10. Biester New Player

    Sorcery, although it has a dumb am and no power-back mechanic, is in the top 3 highest damage-dealing powersets. When they re-revamp sorcery, i'm predicting it will be way op based on the lack of knowledge from the playerbase by stating that it needs "serious" help. Other than sorcery, you're spot-on with the rest of your post.
  11. chipzes Committed Player

    It is always the same. New update makes something OP - power 1 is buffed up to be balanced with it - power 2 is balanced with it - power 3 is... oh it's slightly better - power 4 is balanced with power 3 which is the new standard - power 5 is balanced... no wait it's way OP - damn, now the original OP is underpowered again so let's balance it... by making it OP again!!

    It's called power creep and the devs seem to do their best to speed it up with each new update. We can't have balance if every new update sets the bar even higher than before. People don't want the next power to be OP because every time a new OP update is launched it destroys any balance progress on every other power. If the devs wouldn't keep on buffing up one thing at a time to be stronger than the last but instead on par with it then we wouldn't be here now after a year of balance updates with zero progress.

    EDIT: Short version on topic: if one thing is OP then it is way easier to nerf it instead of making up new ways to buff everything else.
    • Like x 1
  12. Saybro Committed Player

    Negative. The same way they combine power updates like the have in the past they could do the same with the powers. It beats the wait around 1 whole year for a power to be updated. By that logic, fire will be brought in line when the game is dead. Nerfing a power only leads to more nerfs and more nerfs. Falls in line with your sig. If all are on the baseline of quantum, then hard content will be welcomed =)
  13. Biester New Player

    Notice that most of the powers that were combined with others in a single update will have to be revamped again. It doesnt make sense to operate on over a dozen other powersets just to make them equal to one. Quantum, and perhaps celestial, needs a slight nerf to bring them in line with the rest of the powersets. We shouldnt be op like quantum is, qauntum should be average just like every other powerset. Its a quick and easy fix vs what you are implying.
  14. Saybro Committed Player

    So what you are suggesting, is nerf quantum, and wait another year for powers to be updated one by one?
  15. Biester New Player

    Reading comprehension. Nerf quantum, perhaps celestial also, to bring them in line with the other powers, revamp the powersets that got screwed with their update, and then quit ****ing with powers. The devs are making this way more complex than it needs to be.

    Your suggestion is to leave quantum as is and then go back and revamp hl, nature, sorcery, earth, fire, ice, electricity, rage, gadgets, and mental to bring them in line with quantum and celestial. Sounds like a lot of extra unneeded work to me and a lot of time spent on powers when the devs could be working on something to bring more longevity to the game. The last update that was actually gamebreaking and pioneering was when armories were released. Every update since seems like the focus has been on powers. The most basic, fundamental aspect of mmos is balance but even after 4 years of DCUO's existence, the devs are still struggling with fundamentals.
  16. kravonik New Player

    you cant nerf quantum and cel to be on the level of HL etc. I have seen plenty of other powers in PVE beat Quantum. But if you bring quantum down, then you effectively make it completely useless in PVP (it barely does anything now). HL, Nature, Rage and FT are right now the Gods of PVP.

    And I really stay cant get why people are complaining about a PVE powerset. If you beat the boss you beat the boss.
  17. Saybro Committed Player

    First, chill out. I'm entitled to my opinion as you are yours. I didn't say what you thought was stupid or insult you. Proper respect was given. No need to be rude. I just asked a simple question. I read what you said. If you can't handle a simple debate or topic discussion then simply don't reply.

    Now, bring in line with other powers, we are on the same page, just different ways of getting there. Revamp the powersets with their updates? They've already received their revamps and been down that road and we simply be waiting around yet again for powers to be updated in a years time. I think you may have what I'm getting at confused. I'm just talking about buffing the damage aspect. The numbers per-se'. They already have their AMS so that eliminates the unneeded work, But even then, you put out work, you want it polished not half *****. And what's the point in introducing something new when the original stuff isn't fixed? That just adds more stuff on top of the already broken list in my opinion. And I hear you on the fundamentals part. But I also think that's where a lot of other mmo's got it right. Because they fixed the problems that were already there before introducing new content. I could be wrong though as I'm not a developer.
  18. Biester New Player

    No ill-will or disrespect intended towards you at all so I dont see how you derived that from my post. I still stick with my argument. Im tired of this "balancing" bs, the game is just as imbalnced as it was before GU36 which was over a year ago. The last few powerset updates seem to be done right as these powersets are pretty even in terms of damage out. Quantum is outdamaging these so therefore it should be brought in line with these. I dont see the point in bringing every powerset in line with one powerset when they could bring that one powerset in line with every other powerset.

    The main point here is that after a year of "balancing", we are in not better of a position than we were to start with. I don't want to see another cycle of revamping powers to bring them in line with quantum. I want quantum to be on par with the rest, the shotty powersets to be brought up to the rest, and then the end of this balancing crap. There are other issues with this game that need to be addressed by the devs other than dps powers. How much longer will this balancing sharade take place? Another year? Maybe two years? It's annoying and I'm tired of losing out on what could be some game changing updates on account of powerset attention.

    I'll give it another 6 months and if we are still "balancing" powersets then I will feel inclined to believe that the devs don't know what they are doing and I will start playing an mmo in which I know the devs are competant enough to achieve balance. We're missing out on a lot while the devs try to get the fundamentals of an mmo correct.
    • Like x 1
  19. Saybro Committed Player

    The way you started your last post seemed like a dig but if it wasn't then cool.
    Believe me, I'm just as tired. It took forever to "notice" fire was way behind and it seemed like they are doing the same with earth and sorcery. I disagree with the quantum nerf because from what I've noticed, a celestial that knows the combos is putting in work against quantums. The reason why I don't want to see a nerf is becuase its the same cycle over and over and its not working. They nerf a power to high hell and then have to revisit it later to bring it back. Why this keeps happening is beyond me. I know more goes into coding than a lot of us realize but that could be minimized by just going after the numbers instead of mechanics and all that jazz again (except earth and sorc, that pet stuff is crap...sorry). There is no way they don't see that a power isn't balanced. WM was temp band-aid and still is. I'm only on the DPS side of the table because thats what is going on right now. I personally think it should be supports first, then DPS. There are way too many just "dps only" out there it makes me sick.
    • Like x 1
  20. Biester New Player

    Let me reiterate, I want quantum and celestial justifiablly nerfed. I know the devs go overboard with the nerf hammer on just about every nerf they perform but if nerfed correctly then the equation of balance will require 2 less components. Maybe you are right though, a nerf would probably destroy the powerset.

    I, too, would like to see more attention given to support roles over dps' but players don't call this dpsuniverse for no reason. I mainly play as a rage tank and it is clear that there is an imbalance in tank powersets. There are so many more issues that we could discuss but I'm gonna log onto my rage toon and melee the **** out of some raids even if I do get outdamaged by quantum because I enjoy the challenge of doing so.

    Speaking of which, I see you have a rage toon so how have you been farring with meleeing the new raids? I haven't had as much of a problem as the community claims. I meleed lab with no ko's and hoh I only had one ko that was due to me meleeing (damn forgemaster's spin attack gives no warning). Throne is bugged but I successfully managed to melee the first group of adds without dying in both regular and elite. Of all the ams, rage's seems to require the most knowledge of the powerset in order to be successful and I like that. I laugh at all of these "impossible" statements by the community. Once Throne is fixed, I'll try to make a video of me successfully meleeing all of the raids with no ko's.