W.I.P. Combat Balance - Jump Canceling Solutions

Discussion in 'Concluded' started by Spytle, Mar 3, 2014.

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  1. terrowshade12 New Player

    There other ways to balance that dont invole tearing anything down or building houses. Shave cooldown down on powers with crazy cooldowns, lessen power cost, buff weaker powerset, make it so every power in all sets are good not just stepping stone, fix might scaling vs prec to name afew ways. Jeeze all these would refreshing compared to the nerf rampage the last years been.
    • Like x 3
  2. Dianna WD New Player


    Except for "fix might scaling vs prec to name afew way" I agree with all.

    Actually a Precision Based character has around 1870 Precision plus 224.1 DPS weapon.
    1 DPS = 10 Precision... So... 224.1 DPS = 2241 Precision
    1870 Precision + 2241 Precision = 4111 Total Precision + 306 by Flex Soder = 4417 Total Precision

    How about a character with a Precision buff?
    1870+306 by Flex = 2176 Precision + 40% = 3046 + 2241(weapon dps) = 5287 Total Precision

    How about a might Character?

    Well... If I'm not wrong, a full Might character has around 4300 Might plus Neck Bonus(87x3 = 261) plus Nitro(298)
    4300 + 261 + 298 = 4859 Total Might

    So... 1 Might will add around the same dmg as 1 Precision if applied in powers with the same base dmg.

    But we have strong might powers? Yes... We have, but Might powers are DoT based and is needed a lot of power.

    But why they are weak, so? Simple... The Devs made MOSTLY of them with a high power cost, with a high cooldown and slow cast time.
    This is the problem of the Mental(low casts), Fire(power cost and low dmg), Ice(power cost and low dmg), Electricity(Power cost and high cooldown), Nature(slow cast time)... This are some MIGHT BASED powers with problems.

    I created a topic asking for some small changes on Electric to reduce the cooldown of the powers. But where's the answer?
    Fire needs more DoT powers and Detonate need to be AoE... Where's this change?

    Do you know why they want to nerf the jump clip and etc? Simple... Will be easier to make people switch to powers like Rage/Celestial. Which ones are easier to play and are DLC powers.

    They are nerfing old stuffs to sell new stuffs. Simple =)

    Tell me... Why they are able to make strong powers like Celestial and Rage that can keep up with HL/Gagdet using LESS power and without jump clip, but they aren't able to make changes in the others to balance?
    Why their math works for Rage/Celestial which are the LAST TWO DLC powers, but the math don't work to make changes in the others?
    Why they want to nerf the old mechanics? Simple... They want to sell the new DLC with a new mechanic.

    So please... Don't tell me they are trying to balance. They are just nerfing old stuffs to sell new stuffs. :(
    • Like x 7
  3. Collector New Player

    OMG....read the opening statement made by spytle, he stated why they can not do what you just yammered on about doing! and listen to yourself......MORE buff this nerf that, that is why this game is like a graveyard lately!
    • Like x 5
  4. Badname2 New Player

    YAY im happy this is happening - As predicted I am happy they are changing the way DPS plays and not roles.

    if you dont like it, then get out and leave or play a support role.


    Good bye all your scrubby dps that cant play properly. Clipping is fine - circumventing the RULES ISNT.

    So I am happy that you "good" dps are going to become terrible, and the self confessed elite dps will become - OK

    You abuse something and it will get fixed.

    Front loading of damage has always been a problem. Learn to play the game for once
    • Like x 3
  5. Rodrigo2633 New Player

    unfortunately you are ruining the game are destroying the grace want to invent various crap player who invest in the game are now stopping to play with these new inventions in the world of imagination dc uo is getting ridiculous animation change WHAT you want to do anyway is not it better to change the name of the game for the enchanted world of the dc universe, why are you ending the game with these things and not just me that Axa that invest heavily in dc whole month and put my legendary station cash and at the end you put a dlc or update to spoil and ruin the players because you do not seek to do something that pleases the players thought the brilliant idea recover full kit now change movements and place weapons of super heroes will turn dc combo arms or fpd not doubt anything
    • Like x 2
  6. Snakey New Player

    So ur saying that somebody who uses all means to increase his damage and being able to press zillion buttons every second to perform the combos with clips/JC is a noob, dont know the game and cant play?
    • Like x 1
  7. PerfectLegend Dedicated Player

    My concern is that they're making the game too slow now.

    The fast paced action was what lured many of us to this game.

    With the changes to jump canceling, along with the animation increases to 1-1.2 seconds, every power will feel like Mental.

    If I wanted to play a slow paced game, I would've left to play Final Fantasy, or another MMO with long cast times.

    I will stick around to experience the changes, but I'm hoping it won't dissapointed me as much as I think it will.
    • Like x 5
  8. helvetica New Player

    Normalizing the power animations will speed up the game, not slow it down. Most of the powers have 1.5-3s or more cast times. Normalizing them to 1-1.2secs is speeding up the game.

    That's exactly what it means. That's about as delusional and irrational as I've seen in this thread...

    It's like mashing buttons somehow makes you able to see how complicated game design is and let's you see all the cause/effect interactions between different ingame systems and mechanics... :rolleyes:
    • Like x 3
  9. PerfectLegend Dedicated Player

    Keep in mind, that also means slowing down the quick animations of the following:

    Gauss Grenade, Electrostatic Bomb, Voc. plants, Galvenize, etc.

    So yes, while a few moves are getting .X removed from their animations, it's also going to have an impact on the burst capabilities of every powerset, thus making the game even more slow paced, in my opinion.
    • Like x 5
  10. helvetica New Player


    Yeah. No one is confused about that. Most casts in the game are longer than 1secs though. So, yes a few moves will get slowed down but most will speed up. Now, I know you're thinking "oh no, all my favourite powers will be slow" ... But it means there will be more than 6 powers to choose from instead of using the same 6 powers everyone else is using. So you don't have to use just those 6 powers anymore anyhow.

    For years we've complained about having to buy a bunch of useless junk powers in the tree just to get to the few 6 powers everyone wants to use. There's gonna be less of that now because the "junk powers" will be more useful.
    • Like x 3
  11. PerfectLegend Dedicated Player

    I wouldn't necessarily say that. You're just assuming at this point. A majority of those "junk powers" are also due to power point placements - Like fire, for example. So junk will still be junk.

    Actually, also keep in mind that base damage and won't even be looked at after the animation changes. So you can't even use a normal rotation until they're adjusted. Powers won't be balanced at all until those are made, which is another thing that worries people.

    I'm hoping they get it all straightened out ASAP, to be honest.
    • Like x 5
  12. helvetica New Player

    They already said they'll be making balance adjustments to the powers themselves (base damage) once JC clipping is fixed. They need to look at the system as a whole to see where the balance is needed first though. That's a given.
    • Like x 3
  13. PerfectLegend Dedicated Player

    Edit: Misread that.

    But what I said stands, powers will be out of whack for a while - due to the changes to animation times unless it's evaluated with the changes already in place.
    • Like x 2
  14. Giggles Loyal Player

    @Jax

    Regardless what the amount of players are that jump cancel when they DPS, the fact is jump canceling to front load damage is a confirmed "loophole", and it is being fixed accordingly. It has been a long time coming.

    As far you saying this game will never be balanced, the main reason for that is jump canceling. It's pretty hard to balance around a mechanic that can make an animation time 0.0 seconds. That is also why it is being fixed. No MMO is ever perfectly balanced, but at least our devs recognize there is room for improvement and they are trying to do something about the imbalances. I can respect, and support their decision.

    As far as the devs "not knowing how to play" their game. I just want to point out, the devs are the creators of this game. They deem something intended or unintended. The fact again, is that jump canceling to front load damage was an unintended loophole, that is being fixed. They know better than anyone else about the rules they created for the mechanics in their own game.

    This is called "change for the better". Accepting change is part of playing an MMO. I think the devs are doing a phenomenal job, and I sincerely believe these changes are going to help this game in the long term. :)
    • Like x 3
  15. Frankzilla Committed Player

    So whats being said is because only a few powers have one ability that can be jc the entire fighting mechanic needs a change. Ever move in any power set cannot be jc we are really talking about a hand full of powers here fear gas plasma retch fan. So what is the issue if you dont want ppl completely clipping animations then you have to take away consumables as well. But I doubt anyone will agree that if jc is a loophole so is karmic hex consumables.
    • Like x 1
  16. Frankzilla Committed Player

    @ Giggles lol in the long term. The community is gonna have to be willing to deal with the aftermath of this for it to even make it to this long term you speak of. Im not saying its gonna die but a lot of ppl are going to find other games to play ppls play time are going to decrease significantly. With lack of content bugs now this, I mean this isnt even a complete balance fix powers will be ruined well viable rotation wise for pve. Then we have to wait for all the powers to be rebalanced again so I see a lot more imbalance coming from this then anything until they still end up having to balance powers out this will just some how make it easier as you are saying.
    • Like x 5
  17. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    So the 3 powers that benefit from jc are ruining and unbalancing the game lol
    • Like x 1
  18. Crimson Jonni New Player

    I wouldve commended your post if you even used an ounce of logic or reasoning. Yes Jc is an exploit and something should be done about it, but please explain what "playing the game properly" is. They way you made that sound seemed as though there is only one way to play the damage role, which isnt true.
    Further more, if every so called scrubby dps were to play support roles, who would dps? How would you be able to tell who was a good dps or not? Scoreboards? If so that directly goes against what youre complaining about. You want Dps's to play differently but are going to still judge them by the way that created the whole fiasco? Please think things through next time you post :/
    • Like x 1
  19. Frankzilla Committed Player

    This just sounds like you've been kick out of a lot of raids lol. How is it circumventing anything when the ppl who created the game made it possible. Also there are only a hand full of viable move that were even worthy of being in a rotation that were able to be jump cancelled so even this won't save you lol.
    • Like x 1
  20. Giggles Loyal Player

    @Frankzilla

    The changes to jump canceling and the combat system as a whole is a new opportunity. What this is, is an opportunity for the devs to revamp the combat system and make the game seem fresh. This is an opportunity for the devs to better balance all power sets. Make no mistake, this alone is not going to balance the power sets, but putting in these mechanics that prevent the system from being abused will be useful tools for the devs in that process of balancing the power sets in the long term.

    As for people leaving, that is just the nature of the MMO. When players leave, new ones usually come around to take their place. The way I see it is, if you actually love this game, then you play the game for this game as a whole. If a simple little bug fix is going to drive away certain players, those players were not playing this game for the right reasons, and maybe they are just now finding this may not be the game for them. I personally will be here until these severs are shut down, as I am here for the DC experience more than anything else, although I do also love my lifetime subscription.

    I for one support and am thrilled about the devs decision to try and balance this game further. I 100% support the changes to jump canceling. This is going to freshen up the game in so many ways. :)

    P.S.

    I would also like to point out, that in beta and shortly after launch, one of the biggest things that drove people away was jump canceling/clipping. It was one of, if not the biggest complaints this community had. Who knows, maybe some of those players will return in the place of any who leave. Time will tell. :)
    • Like x 3
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