W.I.P. Combat Balance - Jump Canceling Solutions

this too one or the other its been on the fence too long

Please keep in mind that all animations will be subjected to a 1 to 1.2 animation time. That's not very long at all. There would be no need to jump cancel unless you are trying to avoid imminent death, which it would take you about 1 to 2 seconds to avoid the death and reposition yourself, so again this 1 to 1.2 second delay after the initial jump cancel is only to prevent the jump cancel from being used to aid in front loading damage. You do realize I said seconds and not minutes, right?

these are still channeling powers not burst powers. jc powers can hang for a bit if you decide to let them...or you are flying lol

Exactly, and it is a channeled ability for a reason. By jump canceling a power like plasma retch or fear gas, we are doing so to front load damage. Again, jump canceling was not intended to be used for this purpose. Thus why Spytle called jump canceling when front loading damage a "loophole". This is is what I am trying to fix, so the devs can better balance all the power sets. 1 to 1.2 seconds is not long at all.

could just turn jc powers into cone 10s dot with 10s cooldown and 1.2 animation and ditch jc (shrugs)

Jump canceling needs to exist for avoid imminent death. However, it should only exist for that reason, as the devs intended. So getting rid of jump canceling altogether is not the answer. The answer is to prevent jump canceling from being used as a way to cancel animations to speed up damage out, aka front loading damage. This is what my idea does, it allows us to continue to use jump canceling to avoid imminent death, while also allowing support roles to use beneficial powers the same way they do now. My idea only effects DPS who jump cancel to front load damage, it effects no one else. My idea fixes the problem the devs are trying to fix.

then why dont all powers have the jc option?

That is because it was a mistake, a mistake they are now trying to fix to better balance the game. It's also only used in long animations, which should cancel out all PIs and damage after the jump cancel. You see right now, people are using it to cancel powers like plasma retch and fear gas, and then spamming more utility powers and weapon attacks. This mechanic is not being used in the manner the devs have always intended. If they slap a delay of 1 to 1.2 seconds after the cancel on utility and weapon attacks, it ensures that no one can use it to front load damage, and we only uses it to save ourselves from death.

The time we are looking for is the one that apply after the player JC(animation resolution).
So if i JC after 0.7s, then you propose to add 1-1.2sec. So i'm 'free' after 1.7-1.9 sec.
I understand what you wanted to say : Player should be allowed to do next attack (weapon or power) at same time (1-1.2), JC or not.
I suppose it's technically difficult to calculate resolution animation by subtract time of JC(0.3 or 0.7) to non-JC power animation (1-1.2).

In order to avoid imminent death, best time is 0.0s(due to user reaction time).
To stop damage advantage from JC, best time is 1-1.2s(as you said).

Currently, it happens that you are stuck in animation but still able to slide/move (happens with weapon animation).
It would be perfect, if they can reproduce that and so configure 1 time for mouvement and keep time of power resolution.

Otherwise, 0.5 seems to be the correct time to let player avoid damage and reduce damage ability of JC.

I think it could work the way I described at 1 to 1.2 seconds without a problem for jump canceling to avoid death. Let me explain again.

Say for example I am in PW and I use fear gas, and the warrior shoots a red ball at me. I should be able to jump cancel right away, but it should cancel any PI and damage the moment I jump. Then I am given a cool down of 1 to 1.2 seconds for any utility or weapon attack due to the jump cancel I performed. Beneficial powers would not be on type of cool down due to the jump cancel, so any of us could use beneficial powers like shields, heals, instant power, etc but nothing that does damage, because after all we only canceled to avoid the red ball and save ourselves.

What I am trying to say is, the delay should not take place before the jump, but after the jump, and strip all damage from the canceled ability and any PI it may apply while also placing a delay on the player of 1 to 1.2 seconds on their next utility power or weapon attack. This would keep jump canceling the way it is now, while fixing the front loading damage issue as well.

It works for fear gaz, plasma reach and other power that apply DoT and PI. But spark barage, fan and others do instant damage and can be JC. i don't beleive that dev will change all powersconcerned by JC.

Also, i don't know how dev would be able to let a defensive power apply and an offensive power not apply.

And we still have problem concerning timing of next power. As i said if i JC after 0.7s, then you propose to add 1-1.2sec. So i'm 'free' to use another power/weapon after 1.7-1.9 sec. JC would become an "avoid damage penality". I'm pretty sure that some dps will not even try to avoid damage in order to do more damage, and if they die they will blame healer(which already happen but i will happen more often).
We agree concerning fact that JC should not affect/benefit next power/weapon attack.
I still consider that perfect solution is to set JC as a 'mouvement allowed' ability without affecting power restriction(1-1.2).
Is it possible? Only dev can say.

Seems they want us to choose a time that affect both effect of JC but only JC(and not all powers).
In this case, i vote 0.5.

0.5 FOR PRESIDENT!!!!! XD

and not everyone spams jump cancel...


I for one rely on regular clipping through out solo's, duo's, and even most alerts now.


and just jump cancel at bosses, which is when its really only needed OR in duels against someone in full 88 & ^ PvP gear

@spytle, I know I been here siding with my fellow HL users regardless US EU PS or PC players, but as you said this IS going to happen, has any idea or "rough" estimates been thought of?

on anything animation times, this subject ect,,, been on DC a month b4 it was f2p, so would just like to know whats going on where this game is heading.


also HL ppl I know it seems like a pain in the *** but why bother arguing? mise well see how its actually going to hurt us before we start in with pages of complaints. that way when it is done, they can at least edit/buff HL since they screwed it up lol

I could live with JC costing power, because i use my next cola's to gain power to start with even if theres trolls, just to ease the power refilling on trolls, least on my end.

If your posts are removed, how many pages shorter would this thread be?

Some great discussions going on on this in the other section Giggles, as it seems DCUO's fearless leader is trying out HL and enjoying it (WOO HOO). I think it's smart to stay in this thread as you are though so your opinions are not grossly outnumbered.

Ha! I think you could take 10 pages off, lol.

Balance everything to what? Bad DPS's?

Well if they do change the dovetail to 1.2s= new animation time. They might just have to buff the powerset, but there is no guarantee they will do that.

One of his previous posts were that he gets it but that his opinion hasn't changed. He's a devleoper, so all teaching him is doing, is showing him exactly how badly this effects his product. I promise you he's looking at it and dissecting it and saying to himself how X breaks Y's intended function and so on.

I wouldn't count on him suddenly saying, "hey this is fun" lets leave this alone and further destroy the sustainability of our $50mil + game. I could be wrong... but I probably won't be.

Honestly, this weapon mastery system is a bad idea. I think the best solution to balance the powersets is to keep charged weapon attacks except buff them all so they hit like one handed used to. This made the might based powers competitive and the powers everyone complains about (celest and HL) really don't have the time to use those charged attacks. If there is still an unbalance then just tweak the strength of the might based powers till "the casual" player can feel good about themselves at the end of the raid. With this done anyone with minimal effort can be a good DPS. I know this can be done because powers get nerfed so they should be able to be "un"nerfed. I am also surprised WM gets so much support on the forums. When I'm in game I hear nothing but bad things and there is only one person in my league who is optiministic. Yesterday, for fun, I shouted in the watchtower this, "I'm so excited for weapon mastery! Who's else can't wait?". I got nothing but negative feed back. People called me a noob and most just said this is the death of DCUO. Some simply don't know what's going on and asked what WM is lolz. This system punishes the elites and awards the scrubs. People out there took the time to master powersets like fire, quantum, even earth and made the viable just the way they are. These people don't need WM because they have mastered the power themselves. When this is done we will see boss fight where all the DPS are around a boss doing a ranged "one-two" WM combo and chasing it with there strongest might based attack. They will feel like beast and thus a generic DPS system is born where the dull among us can shine. Might as well just start selling skill points next so they can really be beast. After all the casual player only has about 80-100. This minimum animation times will also effect the support roles in way I don't think people realized. You can know longer clip recharge with POT. A healer can not spam if they see the group or a person needs it. There will be ramifications. Now lets get to the real problem with the game, the PS3. Lets face it, it has already been established the memory is all but spent for the PS3 thus the one raid War of the Light and the planned "small" content Amazon fury to be released. This lack of content is a game killer. With titles like ESO and Destiny coming out how can DCUO survive? Will the game end simply because there's no more memory and people just aren't realizing that? Is every move from here on in an attempt to squeeze what little is left from DCUO and make as much money as possible before the day comes where people try to sign on and get a message saying the server is not available? We players don't know but you guys do. I for one will be going month to month with my subscription lolz I have my suspicions. The only solution is create a DCUO PS4 title and allow us to port our toons and unfortunately I don't think this is in the realm of possibilities. As those of us with the PS4 continue into the age of next gen games we will eventually put down this game and move to a counsel based MMO made for the next gen. I don't think I would ever play my PS3 again and at the end of the day DCUO is only what the PS3 can support. Well...here's to wishing the best and this post is just my somber thoughts as a realist. I know a lot of things are not in the realm of possibilities and you guys are doing the best you can but at the end of the day most people hate this mandatory animation,end of JC, and weapon mastery thing. Most people are bored and upset with the lack of content. It sucks that when I get on the game its mostly to talk with my friends and talk about preparing for ESO when we should be raiding.