Re-balance Phoenix Rockets or Forbit them at spawn

Sunderers do have two weapon slots that can be repurposed for "anti-missile guns," e.g., basilisks or kobalts ...

What is stupid is allowing someone to attack another player without risk of retaliation.

There is precedence in this very game for that. Mana AV turrets were killing tanks without risk of retaliation and they got nerfed due to this single factor.

Eliminating spawn room warriors wouldnt hurt anything, except said spawn room warriors K/D.

No one has EVER turned the tides of a battle once the spawn room is surounded.

I'd even be ok with a larger painfield, (with visual effects) and large walls around the spawn rooms so that no one can shoot in or out.

And just because you havent played them doesnt mean there arent other games like this one.

Ever played Dark Age of Camelot? They were doing 3 faction pvp in 2001 with maps as large as planetside2.

There's a difference; The guy being engaged by the spawn room, moved there.
AV Turrets were out-of-rendering attacking, not attacking from a limited Arc fixed-location.
Only Aircraft could claim an out-of-rendering issue or long-range attack, as Bursters.

Eliminating the ability to shoot anyone near the spawn room, means that anyone camping the spawn room or near it, has free rein until the Defender is in a shooting-gallery position to even be able to begin firing, while the Attacker already can line up their shot on their head.
As the grand thing about spawn rooms, is there is no cover for the defenders to leave, and the cover for attackers is outside the field -- add in the usual massive chokepoints, that the Defense has to leave this open killing field via, the attackers have an invulnerable wall where they stand to then slaughter the defense whom has to go through the smallest possible lane..
And in quite a few bases, this means 2 entire lanes converging on that chokepoint,

We have massive walls around quite a few spawn rooms, that have done nothing but block the spawn room from extending the LOS to opponents (which limits the spawn BS, for most things past aircraft), but are also used more so to kill the defenders than to actually help the defense protect their spawn or exit from it.
As commonly enough the walls are used to fire down on the spawn room, as there's barely an firing angle from inside even..
While the Attackers get an easier head-shot on the defense, at the same time.

No one has ever had an easier time holding a position, than a spawn room, and spawn-room chokepoint.
As it's usually, an open field devoid of cover around the room for firing angles (which means no cover against enemy fire either), to the usually only one path out of an enclosed area around this room, that has multiple entries to this single lane out.
This sets up, 2 firing positions on one single exit, after they've exited the very small spawn door.
Add in the numerous bases where tanks, whom can't shoot through the spawn shield, slam the spawn shield & area around it with Tank shells.

With absolutely no-return-fire possible, they can basically fire at this spawn from outside easily, whom has no cover, and no practical way of actually returning fire without dealing an AOE of death in the open - making the tanks sit just dead in the open, giving them even better angles.
As they finally lost the risk of even a scratch on their hulls, to hold down the most critical location in a base..

Without any set-up, that can actually be more of a threat than a short-ranged static field, the ability to handle the smallest chokepoint in the entire base, that also is the easiest to hold from outside, is the only chokepoint worth bothering with.
When you can close out an spawn-room from outside, the moment you get there with a tank, shutting down that entire base's spawn, meaning you just forced everyone back an entire hex.
That's a massive delay, of reinforcements that have to cross open terrain now, and enter the base from outside.
Stick another vehicle out there or stalk their pad, and they're even further back.
How many MBT's is needed? like 2 or 3, to shutdown the enemy, unless they already spawned their vehicles.
Which considering the battle is inside, means they already lost the vehicle battle originally.

So it makes it even easier, since once you reach the spawn, like via aircraft, you have killed the base.

No
Simply because The Phoenix is most likely the ONLY WEAPON gives NC an advantage, at least to defend.
VS and TR have guns with higher rate of fire and precision, even max are powerful.
TR has the tracker rocket launcher.
VS has that kamehameha launcher.

Correct. A decision I agree with.

This is not the same. Nobody can fire at you from a spawn without retaliation unless you CHOOSE to let them. Players gotta pass that IQ test I was talking about though.

For me, not a problem. Nobody can shoot me from the spawn.

I'm not sure what a spawn room warrior is??

Interesting. I did it just last night. Twice.

Had we used the old school spawn rooms it would have been impossible. Had the spawn shields not allowed rockets to go out we would have been HESH camped and it would not have been possible.

But... using the existing system. Yeah we did it. Teamwork is OP!

I don't consider it to be the same, sorry. Multifaction & PVP isn't what makes this game special. It's the 3D shooter and raw player count primarily. The big point in the earlier statement was that PS2 has implemented the mechanic you dislike to solve a problem that does not really come up in other games. There are some similar problems and similar solutions revolving around spawn camping.... (go lookup how John Carmack gave away his Ferarri to a guy who invented the first spawn camp in Quake 1). Planetside has a spawn camping problem that is unique to the parameters of this particular game.

Your cognitive facilities don't work, apparently, as I never said that.

If the defenders have numbers, they will gather in spawn, pull MAX units and everything else. Sweep out, blast everything, and rush the point. Then break out and kill the Sunderers, and mop up.

NOT just sit in spawn firing flak, sniper bullets, and stepping out to spam rockets. Then ducking back inside if things get scary. Spawn room heroes are lame.

Given that without the ability to fire out, the Defenders wouldn't be able to stop opponents from getting even better angles on the spawn, let alone vehicles, whom can line up perfect LOS onto the Spawn-Room Door.
The Number of people needed to shut-down a spawn-room, reduced into a single choke-point, let alone the door, when no return-fire can be had, without first being shot, turns it into a fish-in-a-barrel situation for the Defense.

Max units in an closed-point, is fodder for explosives or general AOE Weapons, let alone easy focus-fire.

The Defense will need twice the manpower of the Attackers holding & only needing to hold 1 single position in the entire base, to cap the base with as little effort as needed.
A Position reachable inside seconds of getting to the base.

Anyone in a Spawn-Room, firing sniper rounds is usually as far removed from actually threatening any attackers not stalking the Spawn room.
Any AA Max, not in a spawn-room is the most fragile thing given how a single ESF can delete it --- Though bloody annoying to pilots, due to the absurdity of constant flak, it's not like the MAX can survive outside the room.
The Rockets being fired; yeah needs LOS to spawn, which if at vehicles, means a Vehicle has a direct LOS to the spawn-room.
Which as shown by other posters, if not able to be shot at with rockets, will endless blanket the door with AOE Shells without needing to worry about return fire.
This means, from outside, less than a handful of tanks just ended all possible use of that spawn room, before anyone even got into the base.

Spawn-Room Heros', are only affecting people within range of a Spawn-Room.
These Spawn-Rooms have no LOS to any points, and past a rare base or two, are walled in, with a second choke-point on the only path to leave the cover-less area around the spawn-room.

Hell, if the attackers were that out-popped, that the spawn room contains enough people to survive a cluster-**** of a choke-point where AOE Weapons are hellish, then the Attackers are the lowest population in that base.

If you are threatend by a guy in a spawn room, and You aren't a Pilot -- You're in the wrong place.
As if you're there, you are in LOS & operating, next to the enemy's only spawn option in that base, and expecting them to what exactly?

Burst forth with more people than the attackers, Maxes & all, through the narrowest choke-points in the entire base, with no ability to stop the Enemy from lining up perfect shots on the only path they can even leave?
Aim Rifle at position of head, onto door; Opponent leaves, Opponent has no cover, and will be dead first.
Multiple opponents exit spawn room; AOE Weapon ruins them entirely.

VS would have a field day, of just Lashing Spawn-Rooms into oblivion, while everyone else needs to use tanks & C-4.

Your memory is incredibly selective.

Spawn rooms almost always have teleporters.

Bases ALWAYS have nearby bases, and those have vehicle pulls. Use them?

You're mad that an outpopped spawn room can't use cheap tricks to get cheap kills. That is your entire point, however you thrash about to try and justify it. You also seem to think that the argument that a single infantry can lose to a vehicle 1v1 holds merit, which shows just how OP a NC max is, that you would EXPECT it to win 1v1 against a vehicle.

You've used these teleporters right?
You know most of them, move the user about, less than 5 yards from the spawn room, and still have them exit to the same exact choke-point?
And that their exits are even smaller, usually more exposed, and rarely give a path that isn't to an equally easy-to-hold chokepoint if their small doorframe wasn't enough, and that's assuming it's not on the same exact path to the base as the spawn-room.

Ah yes, pull a vehicle from the next base over, assuming the defense didn't lose the vehicle battle, or that the enemy isn't already there before you have enough tanks, let alone that the enemy still has the ease of their infantry whom were able to get into the perfect holding points on the spawn-room..

I'm annoyed, that you want a spawn-room to be the easiest farm, on top on the easiest choke-pont.
Like cheap kills? Yeah, what's shelling a spawn-room with HEAT or HESH? Skill? Hell, how is standing around a spawn-room, not cheap? You're literally on their exit point, where they have the smallest manuvering room, clustered together perfect for explosive blasts.
Justify spawn-warriors? Can you justify spawn-campers?

As no base requires anyone capping it, to hold position or be near the ******* spawn-room, where anyone in the spawn can fire from.
That is the Attacker going from 'attacking' to farming the spawn.

As well, no, actually, I just described how a 450-nanite invested MAX unit, designed for AA-Firepower that sacrificed all capability against any other target type, is killed inside an instant by the smallest & Cheapest Aircraft.
And how it's rightfully annoying to pilots - that their constantly be struck by RNGesus Flak from every spawn-room.
However, I also note, why those AA Maxes are there; the ESF would just delete them near instantly, for cheaper, as aircraft.

I get it, that You really want that farm, to be safe, but You are farming a spawn-room.
The original Spawns had no ability to defend themselves, as shown in this very thread, and were basically Death-traps, that were endless shelled at range.. Making the defenders unable their base if the Enemy could use a single tank.
And now you want the ability for the spawn-room to be defenseless & unable to oppose Anyone who dares exits.

As without the ability to fire back - How exactly is the defense meant to leave the damn spawn, when they can't secure the killing-field (in their enemy's favor) around the one Choke-point they are forced to use.. to defend their own base.
Why is it, the Attackers must not be threatened or deal with defenses they can't just stomp into oblivion around the Spawn-room?
Why is a Spawn-Camper okay, but a Spawn-Warrior bad?
In order for a warrior to be noticed, some one has to be actually attacking the spawn, as 90% of the spawns have no ******* LOS to any objectives or the paths to those objectives.
Which means, to be attacked as an attacker, from spawn; You tend to have to be camping the spawn-room.

Surrender makes for a weak faction.

Pubbers dont ever just all whip out Phoenixes and clear the vehiciles around their bases. NEVER SEEN IT HAPPEN EVEN ONCE. ... And organized platoons sometime KICK a player if they catch him spamming Phoenix from spawn (It's happened to me even when I was getting Vehicle kills and direct hits on Liberators)

So that only leaves the Troll-Teams of friends or organized players who are minmaxxing a Strategy. ... ... which they could have done in any number of ways including Tank-Mine/C4 Paratroopers or repeated Galaxy drops right on top of Sundies with dumbfires and kill all that **** even faster. Should those options be banned too just b/c an organized Troll team can abuse them??

In a pvp game such as Planetside 2 is, no one should be able to do damage without risk.

I don't know why this is such a hard concept for people to grasp.

This idea is why they nerfed mana AV turret rangee, because engineers could kill tanks at ranges which the tank had no chance to retaliate.

Lock on range was nerfed, and a little red iconto show the missile in flight was added so that one could see where the heavy who was locking you was shooting from. Not enough imo, but the reason was because invisible guys were locking onto airplanes and vehicles without any chance of retaliation.

Paratroopers with C4 are putting themselves at great risk. I try to C4 tanks and almost always die to them without killing them. I'm probly not good at it, but the point is that to C4 someone you have to put yourself at risk. You cant chuck C4 from the spawnroom and hit a tank 300 meters away behind a hill.

Dropping from a gal onto a sunderer with dumbfires puts you at risk. If there are 12 people dropping and 20 people on the ground, the droppers will be killed.

The spawn room warrior faces no risk of retaliation. This is a very bad game mechanic.

Where is the risk in shelling a spawn room that can't fire back, has no defensive turrets, has massive choke-points around it (that funnel the defense in), and even has had walls, that better serve C-4 Bombers than defenders trying to survive..

AV Turrets weren't properly rendering.
Unlike say, Static Spawn rooms, those AV Engineers, also moved constantly.

Lock-Ons have enough measures to disable the missiles, when it comes to ground-based, that it's comical.

Guys attacking a spawn-room, are not putting themselves at risk, if the enemy isn't able to remove them.
Defenders leaving the spawn-room, are in a choke-point, easily shelled to death, and if unable to return fire, are unable to engage the enemy without being massacred.

The Spawn-Room warrior, is inside a static box, with a limited LOS, on the one location, the defense has in that base to exit from.
Given that You can actually camp the spawn, while it presently fires back, and has pain fields, say a lot about the 'risks' involved;
Which are basically none, unless trying to leave a spawn-room.

It's a very bad base design, where a Spawn without LOS to an objective, is set-up with an choke-point on the defense, with LOS from a hill-top outside, and the attackers are complaining about Return-fire from a Spawn-room.
It's a very bad mechanic, if the spawn-room is guarding an access route to the Capture points; TI Alloys, originally.
But in most bases, You have to deliberately be trying to get LOS on a spawn-room, as far from the capture points as possible;
Which puts you as camping a Spawn-room; Which is the easiest position to hold, even when the spawn-room can return fire.


Without the ability to return fire.
What exactly prevents the enemy from having an easier time, putting shots onto the spawn-room doors?
From shelling the Door with a tank?
Nothing, as in order to be a threat, the only exit is easily guarded, with the defense clustered, enhancing every AOE weapon possible.

If you are in LOS of a spawn-room, You are not in the right place -- You should be under fire.
As generally, you're shelling or camping the spawn-room, instead of playing the actual objective.

Damage-without-risk;
Is this why the Spawn-room has numerous choke-points, Hills, lack of sky-shields, so every vehicle or aircraft can bomb the living hell out of the room?
Or is it, to ensure that when the Room can't defend itself, from the hundreds of firing angles towards it, from positions it can not open fire on, that the Defense in the cover-less area in the pain-field, has no prayer of actually returning-fire?

Is it a meant to be a One-way street of Danger for the Defense, and never the offense?
After all, it's not like the Offense has to get LOS on the spawn; The spawn rarely has LOS to anything important.
The Defense however, has to get out from this Spawn, which has no cover, no turrets,no barriers.. nothing, a killing field.
Then we recall the endless shelling that was high-lighted:
Which apparently is risky, when nothing can shoot that isn't dead in an instant from a single tank, from outside.

You're defending a completely broken mechanic because of poor base design. Many bases need work. I think an underground passage or new teleporter would help and be within reason for Daybreak to financially accomplish. But still, effectively fighting with absolute safety from the enemy is an inexcusably bad mechanic, and shouldn't be defended.

I'm not defending AA Maxes in spawns, nor am I defending Phoenix Launches.
I'm defending against the notion that removing the Spawn Room's ability to fire back, is a good thing.

I'd damn praise a base-rework, as 90% of them are ****** for the defense.
Even while having the ability to fire back - they're still the easiest place to hold, with no practical LOS to any important spot in the base --- which given how they're an invulnerable, and able to fire any weapon, says a damn lot.

The grand thing, is that it keeps off the Campers a bit better.
Since they're usually needed to deliberately try to get LOS on the spawn.
As it certainty ain't effective the defense, to fight from spawn, for recapturing; It's just to try to hold off campers.

After all, have you seen what I've been replying to?
That just removing the ability to fire back, would solve their problems..
That a Spawn Warrior firing back at a camper, is a problem.
I even mention how AA Maxes are ********. (And that's for Pilots' having to deal with.)

So, considering the arguments, are only for stripping the spawn, from half of the replies about spawn rooms.
Can you really question why, I mention how screwed it'd be, if we they won?

Edit: Hell.
If the damn room wasn't straight open to the sky, it wouldn't matter if it could fire or not.
As then, it really is, the only possible way to reach it, would be to be where you shouldn't - as would have no firing angles at all, for where the enemy could be.

Fair enough. And no, I'm not up to speed with what's going on. My 3rd world internet has been a mess the past 2 months. The Philippines has literally the most incompetent internet providers in the world. They keep unplugging my wire at the street every time they work on the box, and it takes 5 service requests and 2 weeks every time just to get my line plugged back in. It's infuriating. We got it fixed just yesterday, and already this morning it was unplugged again. Now I'm stuck bribing an employee to fix it under the table, which I worry will just cause more disconnections in the future... It's enough to almost have me not caring about spawn rooms anymore. Almost.

Because when attacking is too hard, the map never moves and the game dies.
Attacking has to be easier than defending otherwise we end up with every base being a bio lab or The bastion.

So please since you're so in favour in buffing defenders even more than they are, explain how every base won't end up a reploy defence. Explain how making bases like The Bastion or Towers with A in them is a good thing.

I guess you liked the Indar T.

Risk != Consequence
You can repeat that Mantra all you want.... but you're still being intentionally obtuse and 1-dimensionally manipulative in your rhetoric so long as "Risk" is a meaningless and POOR substitute for the heart of the matter which is consequence

Capture points on every base makes it easy to actually capture the base.
The Spawn Room does not need to give the attackers, the easiest & most effective chokepoint in the entire base for the less effort than holding the capture points.

There's no fun, in it being the most efficient way, as spawn-camping, to take less effort than capturing the base -- and block off the ability to defend the base.
Let alone when you can do this, seconds into an Attack.
That doesn't ensure the map moves; it ensures there isn't a purpose in the capture points.
As what is the point in the Capture Points, if the easiest & most effective method needs less people, and removes the Defenders from play entirely?

problem is solved already just put sundies 305 Meters from spawn rooms, im so smart