Liberator changes {suggestion}

Just a couple of things i think should be changed.

First, you gave us cockpit free-look aim-able guns. Awesome, much appreciated. The only problem is the silly design of the cockpit canopy. So many obstructions. Not to mention it looks like the most noob metal workers fabricated it.

Can we please get clear open cockpits on all of the planes in the game? The scythe has a clear open cockpit and its wonderful.

Second. Please do something for the lib walker.

Currently the hyenas are by far the best tailgun for air to air protection. Imo the walker should be better as it is the skill based weapon. Non skill based weapons really arent fun to use, and they have little replay value as there isnt a lot of room for improvement.

The walker is bad at a2a, and its bad at a2g. Its so bad at both that there is really no point running it. The hyena is a complete upgrade vs air and the drake is much better vs the ground and only slightly less good against the air.

Perhaps remove the damage drop off on the liberator gun only.

Or you could, you know, let me weld a needler on back there and shoot stuff with that

I completey agree with everything.

Nose guns were ruined after CAI. Forget about cockpit remodeling on the Lib, just give me a camera view when I right click. And for the gun to be useful, it needs a range of motion similar to the Valk, so that it can actually mesh with the other guns, as it's pointless to sacrifice belly damage for the nose gun.

YES YES YES for some damage changes to the tail. Noob weapons should let Noob scratch paint when they otherwise couldn't deal any damage, not out-perform skill-based weapons in the hands of good shooters. The Walker/Ranger follows this same backwards approach. Daybreak needs to get their heads out of their *****.

On: Free gun
You can still use the lib like before, just not in "vision mode". Since termals are removed, vehicles spottet very (!) easy, there is almost no need for cockpit optics atm. The huge area blocked is annying, agree. However, you can place your Lib at sideways to the target and have all 3 guns having aim on it, or relay on spotting (realy helpfull).

On: Walker
I dont know who you are playing agtainst, but hyenas are only good vs ppl coming too close. Pro players easily evade them at medium distance. Against those players, the walker does its job. Also Walker deals more continius damage against ground vehicles, is easier to handle, forgiving and faster. IF you manage to hit a good amount of a walker (=skill), it is clearly better than hyenas.

Sure you can ignore optics. I honestly rarely used them on the nose gun before CAI. But the problem is the Tankfuster nerf. It's almost always a bad move not to let your gunners do all the work. Optics should switch to a camera mounted gun if the nose guns are going to stay so weak. If guns aren't getting a buff, how could you not support that change? It would just let the weapons synergize and honestly let the aircraft perform the way it should.

"The huge area blocked is annying, agree" --> I am for camera view

I gotta disagree about the hyena.
Hyena is harder to use than the walker imo, 150m/s velocity and only locks up to 20m away, compared to the walkers 850m/s velocity and constant stream of tracers.
Your stats also dont back you up im afraid, you have nearly 10 hours in hyena with a measly 123 kills accross all (listed in sig) your characters. And the accuracy of hyenas is 28.5%, compared with your secondary ESF weapons which all have plus of 47%, including a often stated real skill-less weapon, A2A missiles which have 85.4% accuracy more than double the kills and an hour less playtime.

I do however agree the walker could use a slight buff, but tbh if given either weapon im satisfied, they do their jobs

Hyena is not hard to use. I dont have lots of kills with it because im not usually tailgunning. Im usually either pilot or belly gunner.

As a pilot i have a very good idea for how both guns perform. I can see hit markers. I can judge how well we do vs enemey ESF with 1 gun vs the other.

And obviously a2a missiles have a super high accuracy since they are lock ons not proximity locks. And i dont really see your point. Because A2A missiles have a stupid accuracy rate that means hyenas arent a better a2a option than the walker?

When did i say hard to use about either of them?


You know what, I was going to go into more detail, and explain myself, but if you cant be courteous enough to press reply im not going to be either.

123 kills with a tail gun in 10 hours isn't bad, especially considering how sparse air is. That's 12.3 kills an hour, about 1 every 5 minutes. I've flown around and only seen a single ESF every 30 minutes or so on some nights. Also consider that it's chance whether the tail or belly gun gets the kill, and the belly guns are much more potent at all ranges so it's less likely the tail gets it. ESF also don't have to split kills with a gunner, so it makes sense that they'll have more kills than a tail gun.

Anyway, I agree with Silken on this. I can't favorably trade with an ESF at long range with either weapon. As an ESF I never get hit by Hyenas at range, but the Walker only keeps me from auto repping. At medium/close range I do better with Hyenas and I'm more afraid of them in my ESF. Maybe you have a knack for the Walker, but I think you're in a minority. Every A2A Lib I ever see on Connery has Hyenas.

Hyenas are scary for an ESF because at close range a hit by a full spread can take 1/2 your HP and with a decent belly gunner that means death. The walker doesn't scare me at all because I can dodge it at close, medium and long range. If I want to try to kill the Liberator, then I have to line up for a long burst and that makes me vulnerable to Hyenas even at long range. It takes about 5-6 full nosegun mags to kill a Liberator with firesuppress or composite armor, not to mention both. Hyenas can keep me dodging and not hitting the liberator and given Liberators have afterburners, I don't even try to kill them unless they have already taken heavy damage, or at least 2 other ESFs are there to help. Otherwise my ESF is just like a skyguard to chase them away from the fight. If they get the drop on me with stealth and racer then I'm just plain dead - Hyenas give no warning unlike most lock-ons.

In my opinion, dumbfire lock-ons are low skill cheese that should be removed from the game. I don't mind normal lock-ons because of the warning and because they allow new players to feel effective. Dumbfire is fine and I feel only respect for people hitting an ESF with a pure dumbfire, but the lock-on assist is stupid without at least a 1.5 second warning tone.

Thanks for that completely off topic info (as usual). Try to understand what i was saying before you respond.
He called the hyenas a skill-less weapon, and called the Walker a skillful weapon, i simply disagreed saying the hyenas wernt skill-less, infact it takes quite a bit of predictive skill to achieve a hit against a superior opponent, opponents such as:
http://ps2.fisu.pw/player/?name=sector101&show=weapons
http://ps2.fisu.pw/player/?name=ilsp4desli&show=weapons
These guys dont fly straight enough to allow for accurate leading on a 150m/s rocket at 200m, they have over a second to dodge.....trust me they dont need it.

Air may be sparse compared to infantry, but get yourself into a lib and watch the ESFs come swarming like ants at a picnic, A2A esfs roam the battlefield looking for prey, and theyll always find it.

I think tbh yourself and silk have taken what i said to the extreme (what a suprise around here.....). You seem under the impression that i think the hyenas are 1 and the walker 10 in effectiveness, i never said nor implied this at all, i simply implied that the hyenas wernt skill-less and infact to me require more skill than a walker since the walker has a much easier time leading shots on fast moving aircraft.
Or to put it another way, the skill involved in using a walker is almost exactly the same as shooting a carbine, bullets with tracers form a stream that you adjust to get on target. The hyenas dont do this, you cannot adjust fire based on your tracers since there just isnt enough of them, the clip empties too fast, and they travel way to slowly - 5 times slower than walker shots.

Imagine peeing your name in the snow, is it easier to control the full stream or short bursts?

Unfortunately the numbers dont support your argument.

According to dasanfall, the hyenas have 31.3% accuracy and the Walker has 22.5%.

The thing about that accuracy is that its probably misleading in that the Walker is likely getting an accuracy boost vs ground targets which it hits easily, and actually has an even lower accuracy against air targets.

Conversely the Hyena LOSES accuracy when firing at the ground so its actual accuracy vs air is very likely higher than 31.3%. I know this because my gunners always shoot the hyenas at ground targets 500 meters below and often they fire full volleys without hitting anything, or at best landing 1 missile out of 6 which is 16% accuracy. I too have fired the hyenas at the ground.

I dont disagree that using the hyenas at range isnt optimal, but a good lib pilot typically charges enemy ESF so that more of your shots should be at close range.

This kind of fighting which is necessary to beat good pilots again favors the hyenas because at close range they require very little aiming and often the window for attacking the enemy is quite small due to the constant movement of the ESF and the lib.

I don't agree with you, dumbfire lock-on are the best type of G2A weapons, since it rely on skill like dumbfire but have more chance to hit their target. The only problem is devs decided to make them skilless and uneffective by making them spray and pray like any other g2a weapons.
IMO they should increase their velocity and lower the detection range.

About your 1,5 sec warning before being hit, just no. Classic lock-on are predictable enought so you can wait for the last sec, dumbfire lock-on break that habit and I think it's a good thing : use flare before the warning and profit of the 5 sec immunity.

Why dont you press reply?

Didnt need to, it seemed obvious to me that i was responding to your post, and it seems like it was obvious to you.

You realize tank buster nerfs were because people would get too close and die instantly right? Even good pilots complained because it was too strong, the same problem goes for hyenas.

I don't think the hyenas are too strong. Its generally not that difficult to disengage from a lib.

Besides that i dont think that a 1 man vehicle should be able to easily kill a 3 man vehicle, (as an ESF can do with a2a missiles).

As an ESF pilot i hate hyenas, but i know that unless i fly like a moth to the flame i can usually avoid them. If i see a lib with hyenas and im alone i just fly away.

I don't agree with the premises of this. Pretend we're talking infantry vs infantry at 300m. Does a Decimator take more skill against an ADspam opponent or a sniper? The Decimator is out of its effective range and relies almost entirely on chance at that point, not skill, same with long range Hyena shots. Now put that Decimator in its intended close/medium range, you just spam it in doorways and get kills, while the sniper has to aim regardless of range. Hyenas are skill-less just the same as Coyotes, and the luck required to hit targets at range doesn't change that.

The current warning doesn't even give enough time to use flares. It's stupid. Plus, Max fire suppress negates an entire spread of strikers - just not 2 - so running flares is worthless. The chance to hit is virtually guaranteed at short-range (150m or less) and almost guaranteed against any hovering aircraft out to max render range (and aircraft render at 700m or more whereas infantry render at 300m or less). If the hovering pilot sees the HA fire the rockets and the HA has good or better ping, then the pilot can dodge most of them. However, because hit detection is client side and people (uh hem certain VPN players) frequently play with poor or bad ping, the dumbfire lock-ons are simply OP because by the time the hovering pilot gets the lock-on warning, the rockets have already hit.

As an aside, you say they are good because they require skill, but then go on to admit they are actually skill-less. That's called a contradiction.

Unless, of course, that lib is running racer chassis, in which case it will chase you down and kill you.