Comment on new HC1 Cougar as of 04/10

Well thats not what they told me.

Anywayz I'm looking forward to this update, the new Bandit actually got me excited.

One i found:-

Another:-

Look, I'm not trying to talk down to you here, because if you are the player I presume you are then I really don't need to hold your hand on anything because you know how to play and have put more hours into this game than I have, but I want you to do something for me.

Go into VR. Go directly opposite the spawn tubes, past the stairs to the vehicle area, and stand at the railing near the infantry terminal there. Look out toward that tree that has NC dummies around/on it and the NC Sunderer behind it. Don't shoot, don't do anything, just eyeball it and guess how far away those targets are. Just ballpark a distance in meters. Now, right-click the tree on the map and drop a personal beacon on that rough area and tell me what number you get from that.

Would you not bother shooting a target at that range? Would you say that no combat ever occurs between you and enemies at that distance, or 10-20m closer or farther out? That's why the Cougar in its current form exists.

Now, on to your second point: Whether the Cougar/Bandit is a "high skill ceiling weapon." What precisely makes it such, and how is the Jaguar different? You might argue that the Cougar/Bandit reward landing hits better than the Jaguar does, but that's false: the Jaguar has higher DPS. You might argue the Cougar/Bandit is less forgiving because it has lower damage per magazine, but that's not actually a positive unless it holds some advantage over the Jaguar; it has 710 less DPM at max damage range and 1120(!) less DPM at minimum damage range. You might argue it rewards headshots, as it goes from 6 to 3 STK while the Jaguar goes from 7 to 4; taking out instantaneous first shots the TTK difference is 0.1899s for the Bandit and 0.24s for the Jaguar, provided all shots are headshots and no shots miss. Under the exact same circumstances the new Lynx kills in 4 headshots with a TTK of... 0.198s. If each misses once, it goes to 0.2849s vs. 0.264s and only swings in the Lynx's favor thereafter (and the Lynx has 10 more rounds to waste and a tighter starting ADS cone if you're moving, which you should be with these weapons).

Is this your sole definition of a "high skill ceiling?" Absolutely flawless accuracy? Because if it is then you're technically correct, the Bandit will give marginally higher TTKs for flawless performance and markedly worse otherwise (fewer rounds, lower ROF, same or worse hipfire, greater COF bloom per shot and per second). And it has less in the way of tools to ensure that actually happens, since it's worse at other things than the Jaguar and Lynx are.

The Bandit will almost assuredly be a good weapon. In the right hands it can be competitive with the Jaguar (but in the wrong hands, it will perform worse). It just isn't a carbine that fits a role the TR lacked. The new Cougar does that, whether you agree that it's a "needed" role or not. Apparently the devs do, because they made the Pulsar C and Razor. It's nice to have the option. If you want a high skill ceiling carbine on TR after the patch, the Lynx seems to reward being able to put a lot of shots on target quickly despite a lower per-bullet damage and is more proportionately rewarding of headshots than 143 damage weapons are. You'll hardly be left high and dry on that.

Thank you SOE, this is something that TR was missing and I have been dreaming. I hope the advanced laser sight is replaced with advanced forward grip and it has access to compensator. Don't really care about those extra 5 bullets, in fact I would be fine with a magazine size of 20 in exchange of something else.

Now fix the servers so we can test it.

Good news on that; it does have HVA, a Compensator, and a 2x Reflex Sight as of last night's patch. However, no mention of AFG. If it's a Razor clone (at least for now) it probably won't get it, as the Razor does not (the Pulsar C does though).

I don't think its competitive... the real high damage long range NC carbine is the AC-X11. A TR variant of the Pulsar C/Razor should come with 600 ROF, the 550 is very lackluster. I got onto PTS finally, its ok, but I can't see any reason to use this Cougar over the T5 AMC.

Using old Cougar stats to create new Bandit is pretty genius though, it feels right and much better than the original Bandit. It should stay there.

Yeah, it'd be nice if they would at least bump the Cougar up to 600 rpm.

Good show TR.

You guys got one of the best close-mid ranged 167 dmg tier carbines(Best RoF in the tier too, I believe), that would have fit in perfectly with both the TR's faction identity and arsenal, nerfed into a defective Razor. I hope you are all happy with yourselves.

Your begging and whining for a long range carbine, because the NC and VS has one, destroyed what was literally a perfect fit between the Trac 5 and T5-AMC. Now, the NC get it with .75 ADS.

I don't blame you at all SOE, I put all the blame on the general TR populace.

So much for "faction identity" and "asymmetrical balance"

You call a defective Razor "asymmetrical" and those extra 5 rounds, "faction identity"?

The original Cougar was a worse gun than the Jaguar and the new Lynx, and the Cougar is not a "defective Razor," it's more or less exactly the same as the Razor according to the datamining.

The sky is not falling, the Cougar is fine, the Bandit is a better fit with the NC, the Jaguar is still better than the Bandit, the new Lynx looks like a ton of fun, everybody chill. Things should work out nicely for all sides.

No worries. I'm done whining about it. Ill just take the "wait and see" view to this and suck it up.

I hope this weapon will have access to a 6x scope

Actually the Razor is better than the ACX-11 at range.

1) Less Recoil
2) Less Bloom per shot
3) More muzzle velocity (by about 20%)
4) More ammo
5) Better hip-fire (just saying because you seem to think hipfire matters in long range)

I honestly do not get the TR problem.
They first complain that they do not have a ranged option, then they get a gun similar to Razor (best NC carbine at long range) and now they say that they already have a ranged option and they want a mid-range option.

Razor is the better option compared to the Merc if you want a long range weapon.

Finally, exactly what we needed.

"They" is not some homogenized group. I have always been in the camp that wants a TR Razor/Pulsar C, and now I got it. I'm happy. I'm sure many others are too, we don't mysteriously flip-flop, we're different groups of people within our own factions. AMC sucks anyways.

I asked about certing into the Razor before - and got back a whole bunch very average responses about it. I certainly don't think its an outright beast and have been trying to use it on my NC of late, but really, it feels weak, in contrast to the Pulsar C or T5 AMC. I certainly don't think the Razor is a great blueprint for an all new weapon, one that they'll likely ask us 1000 certs/700 SC for.

Also some NC said just stick to the Merc when asked previously, and not to bother with the Razor.

Anyways whatever, the Razor doesn't really do much for me, I've tried it on my NC, and I'd never drop the T5 AMC or Pulsar C for it.

I'd argue, that not. But if you feel it was, remember compensate to right for left recoil, otherwise it jitters as Jaguar.

Way to generalize 1/3 of all players.

We didn't ask for another close-midrange option. All of TR's carbines except for the old Lynx and T5 AMC fit this role. We wanted a medium-long range option, and we got one.

In short NC does not have any better ranged option than the TR/VS.

That's what i can understand from this post.
Even i would say stick to Merc, because I fight at ranges of less than 25m when using a carbine.

Obviously not talking about every single TR player dude. Really?

It's true though, the X11 is a close-mid range horrible man killing monster because it's accurate and hitting for ~400 damage a headshot at these ranges from cover, rooftops, trees, behind you, etc. The velocity and mag size really limit its effective range.

The AMC takes a different approach (lower damage, faster, bigger mag) but still really excels in close-mid.

What you want in a long range carbine is the only things that can MAKE a carbine long range: rock steady recoil. With the change to HVA benefiting carbines so much, they all have the same velocity anymore, namely "really fast"

High ROF is a liability for a gun meant to fill the role of the Cougar. At range, ROF has zero impact on TTK or lethality. Handling and accuracy do, both are with are hurt by high ROF.

There's really only one way to make a carbine long range, so it's natural that the factional long range carbines are all pretty similar.


edit - oh and to clear something up. A TR LA/engie can be excused for thinking that no combat takes place outside of 40m because they don't have a way to engage in that until this goes live. But I assure you, long range combat is common and worth it.

Do not hipfire with a Razor or Razor clone. That is not the purpose of that gun nor can it possibly do well at it. Even if all of your shots landed within a fantastic COF, the dps is far too low to rely on that alone at hipfire distance. The best way to hipfire a Razor is to run away and shoot them from a tree.

Jaguar is a fantastic gun and the NC don't have an answer to it. Nor should be. The TR do not have an answer to the X11, for example, nor should they. What they shouldn't have is a gaping hole in a weapon lineup, and this will fix that. As someone who only uses the Pulsar C on my VS and would only use the Razor on my NC if not for the sexy, gorgeous, wonderful X11 but still has it auraxiumed, trust me when I say that you will be very happy with this gun.