Best Allocation of Enchanter Stats

This. P99 people are a funny bunch, had a few of them join the guild and they always seemed to want to met out a wealth of outdated knowledge that really was completely wrong on Live servers. I still laugh at the guy who thought we were idiots cause we weren't going to pull Vyemm to Aaryonar's stairs lol.

For OP: I played a chanter on Vulak and Phinny and I never once put points into cha or even geared into cha and I can 100% say it made zero difference in my character. I was never resisted more on Lull, my mezes last just as long, and I am convinced cha has no effect on charm what-so-ever except MAYBE the initial check, but it certainly has nothing to do with how long a mob stays charmed. My 130 Charisma enchanter was no worse than any other enchanter I have ever grouped with, including the 225 ones and funny enough we always laughed about it cause the enchanter I most frequently grouped with was a high charisma chanter and his charms always were breaking before mine in Classic/Kunark, it was a big joke in our group about how my 130 cha charms always lasted longer than his uber charisma.

Personally, Ill probably go Stamina, because sometimes your pet break does get you down to 1 or 2 hits from dying. Though I could also get behind STR as well.

Of course there are chanters that will swear by Charisma and YMMV, but personally, my 130 charisma was just as good as any other chanter I ever grouped with.

Stamina, maybe Strength if you aren't rolling with a 40slot 100% WR bag from the store, Int/Cha are far easier to cap/softcap with modest gearing on a caster.

You should be stat capped in cha/int during Velious at the latest from gear. There's a decent argument for sta or str - str for carrying early on, sta because it's difficult to cap and gives you that extra boost on magelo over that rival guild enc (and its some hp).

Same experience I've had with P99 folks. It's one of those things where it's like... Dawg, I appreciate your enthusiasm... and you're gonna do great here... but this is different. Give it a couple weeks before you start proclaiming to be an EQ God -- TLPs aren't even exactly the same as EQ Live, so why would you expect them to be the same as P99?

FACT: CHA does effect Lull spell line aggro on resist. (not the resist it self).
FACT: this is true on TLP and P99.

Opinion: While useful, it's not game defining. So maxing CHA or not will be personal choice. You do you boo.

/thread

I sure wish they hadn't deleted all of the forum posts from the devs when they switched from SOE to DBG... cause in 2008 a former dev basically said CHA was rendered nearly worthless and amounted to nothing more than a bonus resist check for chanters on charm (we he said was statistically insignificant). So unfortunately, neither one of us has a source for our information.

I played on Ragefire. I've personally seen the difference of low vs high CHA on my chanter. I recall the thread you speak of, and it was a discussion ONLY on charm/mez effects from CHA. Dev stated it was fairly useless on these and like you stated, a bonus resist check (and a very minor one). Lull line aggro was never commented on.

Interesting, I could never tell the difference between charisma levels for anything.

All that aside, who really uses Lull anyway? If your having to Lull mobs on pulls outside of that once in a blue moon incident then your just not playing correctly. It was pretty rare I ever had Lull up on my bar because frankly, its just not needed or even wanted in the extremely vast amount of situations. I can say there was probably less than 5 incidents where I ever lulled anything during all of Classic/Kunark that I was playing my chanter on Phinny.

I used it here and there, and it could be handy at times. Being able to easily break rooms / stagger spawns with out having to mez lock everything or pass through areas with out having to fight / control everything to rush the named mobs. But it's not a "omg you have to have it" type of thing, it is just another option. I'll be making an ENC alt this run at some point, and I'll be carrying some CHA gear, but it will not be a focus and I'll likely not spend points on it.

Depends what you are doing, in a full balanced group or raid you shouldn't ever need it - but there are TONS of times i've used it when just 3 or 2 boxing. Mainly breaking into camps or lulling to a get a pet, but hardly a rare situation.

Gear for AC, cap your defense skill, and learn how to stunlock. This will maximize your sturdiness in the group-game. Total manapool and resists on lulls dont mean a whole lot when you're able to pull 50mob trains and lock them down with 1 healer healing you on inc until the first stun lands.

Even if CHA does affect charm, it isn't until POP that charm DPS actually matters; when AOEing is no longer the best method for farming/exping, and by then there's more than enough cha and int on gear to cap the stats in group-level gear.

I think you need to look up what a "fact" is, or do you have some sort of evidence that has been hidden away from the community for the past few years? This may be true on P99 but I imagine you have 0 proof to support your "fact" for TLPs

There is a lot of good info in this thread(besides the trolling and bickering) but it can be difficult to separate the biased opinion from fact. I've played an enchanter from the start of Ragefire and through the entirety of Phinigel in both a grouping environment, raiding environment, and boxing crew(I 3 box Enchanter / Mage / Druid).

The bottom line is that ultimately it will not really matter that much how you allocate your initial stats, but as others have mentioned, it depends what era/time frame you are trying to focus on. For having the most benefit out of the gates, it might make sense to put it in Intelligence, however that stat will be maxed very quickly, even without much raiding. So if you put stats into int, it will become useless pretty quickly. If you are looking ahead to the end-game of the server(PoP/LDoN), I can say that as a fully Time geared Enchanter with max AA, the only statistic that is not maxed out(or at least, very close) is Strength. So if you consider that - it might make sense to allocate points to strength since eventually it becomes the only stat that you do not have maximized by gear/AA.

My personal opinion for Enchanter stat priority is AC -> HP -> STA -> AGI -> INT(until max) -> MP -> CHA. Being able to take, survive, and avoid a few hits will have a much more significant impact that a slightly larger mana pool.

Regarding the Charisma debate - it was posted before by a dev but I can't seem to find it at the moment. So these are the "facts" as I know them from a dev perspective as it relates to Charisma:

CHA will impact the following:
Chance for a mob to agro when a Lull spell is resisted. It does NOT impact the initial cast, but it does make a Save vs CHA roll as to whether or not the mob will agro and attack if your lull gets resisted. This is probably the only tangible reason to worry about Charisma at all.

The initial resist on mesmerize and charm spells, as well as the check for Charm breaks(done each server tick - 6 seconds). There are 3 checks done when a mez/charm spell is cast on a mob and is done in the following priority:
1) Level of the Mob in relation to the level of the caster
2) Magic resistance of the Mob
3) Charisma

Mathematically - we have never been told(as far as I know) how exactly this formula is calculated, so the only way we've been able to figure it out is with testing. From the testing that I have heard about, and from my own anecdotal evidence - the impact of Charisma is statistically insignificant when looking at the results of charm breaks over thousands of tests. So while it has been reported by a Developer that the formula for calculating Charm breaks DOES include Charisma, our findings have been that it is statistically insignificant. Based on that, my suggestion would be to strongly avoid an stat priorities that involve Charisma. When focusing on mez and charm - you should primarily be concerned with #1 and #2 above.

Also, Charisma has no impact on any other offensive spell resist(DD, stun, debuffs) rates, nor does it have any impact on mez duration.

Hope this helps!

Best use of stats for an Enc huh...
Not going to wade in that mess above but will tell you what I have found.
Cha is pretty much useless compared to Int and Sta which is why I come to play only human Enc and dump Cha into Int, yeah I know blasphemy right.
But lets look at what gets used, hitpoints (dead dont mez or recharm and you are going to get hit a lot) being able to carry loot (plat is good) and having enough mana to where mana regen becomes the overwhelming consideration. Humans do pretty good on all of it, from a stat prospective during the days of crap armor and undependable tanks, beyond that time it does not matter.
Toughness is not wasted on Enchanters, let the wizzies remain glass cannons give me Kevlar.
So put those Cha points where they do some good.

Objectively the best use of starting points for Enchanter is +25 charisma +5 agi, or +25 agi, +5 cha( could use other stat , doesn't matter that much.)

Here's the reason why.
Stamina has really low conversion rate for pure casters. With absolute BiS gear for classic you will have +500 hp and that's not counting + stam on gear.

Stats in EQ in relation to pure casters don't really add to any mechanics. Agi for dodge ( useful), Dex for weapon proc ( not useful.) Charisma is the only stat for an Enchanter outside of agility that gives you direct mechanical value for what you put in, even if it's minor impact.

You will not have mana problems ever, even without BiS gear. Don't put anything into int. You will get plenty on gear and you will be capped without investing any points eventually.

Tome of Mirgaul is absolute BiS for classic EQ and is very high tier for Kunark and it gives -25 charisma. +25 charisma is objectively the best choice if you're min/max for clasic. You do not want ultra low charisma. Especially since using BiS gear will not give you much + Charisma.

High Elf is the best starting class. Erudite 2nd.

Please stop thinking you can justify pumping stamina or int. It makes no sense and shows how little you understand value in relation to games.

Stamina has such low value. I mean, you want it and you'll get enough of it eventually. You will be healthy with the right gear + rune, and as an Enchanter it's already pretty hard to die if you understand positioning and you pay any attention.

You will never have mana problems, or you shouldn't.

So if you want value in regards to game mechanics , agility or charisma is the only choice.
Personally I'm going +25 cha + 5 agi. I went +25 cha +5 stam last prog server and I don't think I ever went oom unless I was trying to lockdown a huge train of mobs.

I guess what I'm trying to really say is stats in EQ are kind of garbage. The best stat in the game is flat HP and even though I would never tell anyone to explicitly stack charisma, I would say best use of starting points is either +25 cha + 5 agi, or +25 agi +5 charisma. You get more under the hood value.

It wasn't well put together, but if you don't get the jist of what I'm saying you're an idiot.

Throndor's gonna roll +25AGI +5 STA Human Chanter this go around, because Q's right. This don't matter, and AGI is more AC.

There are plenty of people over the years and " not just on p99," that have done poopsock level testing on charisma in regards to Enchanters, that have data that seems to point to having at least 130 charisma is quite worthwhile. It may not be true, but since stats are so trash in this game, I'd rather just spot the charisma anyway. I might end up going +25 agility + 5 cha after I look over BiS gear again. I haven't really put that much effort in yet.

Not bad bet, HIE?