If 2023 TLP is PvP TLE server

Deflection. The moment you realize your argument is terrible so you start bringing up random things that have no connection to the topic at hand.

So far your evidence is a random post 18 years old. "Trust me, bro" anecdotes about how great and thriving the PVP server you were on was, and now other random things.

The answer is in the results. Multiple servers of "regular" Everquest, dividing the population of those kind of players among them. ONE PVP server, but still can't get a population of players that the other ones have. This has been shown for a long time. Even P99 Red is scarcely populated. The demand just isn't there.

An event that was advertised multiple places, not just the official forums. An event spammed across multiple servers. An event on gaming website and forums that was never deleted or censored. Result of the event? Can't get a population to even bother to participate in it.

How hard is this to understand? The overwhelming population that plays EQ is not interested in EQ PVP. Whether that is because they don't like PVP or just don't like EQ PVP or just don't like it more than regular EQ, it is still the same result. PVP isn't popular in this game.

The population isn't trolling PVP players any more than PVPers are trolling blue server players. It just doesn't work in the game. It would be even more unbalanced than when PVP did have a bigger population. There are far too many programs out there that allow people to track or automate actions. There are far too many people that can operate several or dozens of characters at once.

A PVP server would start off strong, like any TLP server ruleset would, but quickly lose population as people realize that its irritating to be killed while just trying to XP or quest. When people get tired of being attacked by a dozen characters and their pets all ran by the same person. When they try to escape from an attack and that non-tracking class somehow knows EXACTLY where they ran to. When people are trying to simply do their raid night but they can't because they get attacked before they can even make it to the AoC. When the server shifts into who the top two guilds are and aren't, and the dominant guild becomes massive and kills anyone not part of them. When the toxic players that exist in EQ are allowed to come out in force and demonstrate new ways to be toxic.

There are just far too many problems that most players ultimately don't want to deal with. On top of that, complaints would be massive and flood customer service. The issues that would pop up would be in multitudes greater than what are already happening. Daybreak doesn't want to handle even more issues.

The issue is ultimately all about the money. This is a business. They want to make as much money as possible after subtracting operating expenses and development costs. A PVP server simply just doesn't do as well as something like a Mischief or other unique server will do. We can argue all we want on the internet, but $$$ talks.

It was deleted / censored everywhere. In case you didn't notice The linked thread about in on Reddit is a deleted post https://www.reddit.com/r/everquest/comments/f5g379/raiding_zek_to_fight_for_a_pvp_server_join_us/

It was deleted by the AUTHOR. Is he self-censoring himself? lolololol

Deleted by the OP, is that censorship when you delete your own failed post?

Good thing you also pointed it out cause i think he has me on ignore lmao. Little softy

Less than 4 years ago:

"7. PVP server?

Jenn: Zek

Alan: We have one. Play on it and we might be convinced that people actually want to play EQ PVP."

"Alan: Sorry? Play on the current PVP server and show us that you actually want to play on one, then we can talk further."

"Jonathan: I suspect you’re overestimating the cost of hosting an existing server, underestimating the cost of supporting a new ruleset, and overestimating the appeal of a PVP server."

Devs have stated it more then just a single time and pretty sure it was part of the reason for the failed event was to show that there was interest in the server.

No matter how many times it gets brought up that the only PvP server is pretty much dead we hear excuses that since it isn't the perfect server they want people don't want to bother. Also seem to try and claim that because there used to be more of a PvP population it would be popular again.

Zek Server was an insult to the pvp community, basically Smedley's way of saying 'get out!'
To demand the community return to the scene of the crime to show our excitement, is never going to happen.
and thus, you will never have the numbers you had prior to WoW.
But yes it's because you say pvp is unpopular, yet you continue to wallow in unpopularity claiming you are in fact popular (which the numbers show you would be very wrong)

edit: want to add, i am a very salty team pvp player of old on eq, which was destroyed by smedley. fast foward 20 years, im playing New World, a team pvp game which had at release over 1 million players online, for those who say pvp mmos are unpopular. But then they hired John Smedley and he gutted the pvp out of the game (again...), and thus that game has now roughly 10k online... because pve mmos are so much more popular than pvp mmos, clearly.

So you're saying that the clean livin' right thinkin' PvP players are still angry about a "slap in the face" that occurred 18 years ago? So exactly what is it that these PvP player are bringing to the table that would in any way induce DBG to create a PvP server? You may not realize it but to the rest of the world the fights you're looking for seem to be fights that you can use to excuse NOT playing on an EQ PvP server of any sort.

18 years is a long time to hold a grudge over a business decision likely based on extremely poor populations on those now dead servers

I don't still hold a grudge, but that decisions was definitely the death of EQ PvP. There were 4 PvP servers prior to the merge, 3 "Team" based PvP servers and 1 FFA server. I'm not sure on the server populations for all of them, but I can tell you TZ still had a pretty healthy population with multiple end game raid guilds active. Merging the 3 "Team" based servers into the 1 FFA ruleset was probably the dumbest idea ever. If they would have stuck to one of the "Team" rulesets that 3/4 of the PvP population preferred, it probably would have worked a lot better.

Your definition of "pretty healthy" is not the same as the devs.

Just like the PvP forum community is convinced that <50 ppl is enough for a PvP TLP while the devs are not.

Wrong again.

This thread has been locked by the moderators of r/everquest
New comments cannot be posted
It was locked by the mods. OP is deleted because OP deleted the Reddit account.

You're right 3 1/2 years ago. BTW they also said no Free trade TLP in this AMA. How did that one work out?

35. Hey Holly, Question 1 - Will there ever be a PvP TLP ?

Question 2 - Will there ever be a FV ruleset TLP server added?

Alan: 2. FV rules are a curse. You don't want that on your server.

Red Agnarr Team PvP. It will be more successful than Miragul was, I guarantee it.

They said there would never be a free trade TLP? Source for that? Cause it isn't backed up by the quote you shared.

Oh, that's right. You don't even know the FV server rules.

Weird you left out a comment by the r/everquest mods where they supported the post being up and explained why it was locked.

"Hey guys - Don't be such Debbie Downers. Sure - PVP in EQ isn't ideal. But you don't need to crap on someone trying to make a change happen to show to the devs that a PVP-TLP might be a worthwhile experiment. I wouldn't play on it personally, but they deserve a chance to recruit people.

More likely than not there isn't the playerbase to support it, but there's no reason they shouldn't try.

EQ has long promoted the underdog in the fight. There's a reason Fippy Darkpaw is iconic for never giving up.


EDIT: That said, there are some allegations of vote manipulation in this thread, so it is being locked now. There are suspicious signs here and we don't appreciate that type of treatment here."

Well said. Why did the three teams PvP servers get merged into the FFA pvp server? That truly was the worst of the 4 and probably had some of the fringe types in it. Nonetheless, I had lots of fun playing on Tallon Zek as a Dark Elf Rogue. Befriended a dark elf cleric and a troll SK. Great memories there.

Side note, why is it the same four anti-PvP trolls every year every pvp thread? Nothing to offer except hopes of getting the thread either locked or completely off topic. Please do not feed the trolls people. Ty

Says OP deleted the post, not that OP deleted their account, if that was the case the post would still be there but the OP's name would be [deleted] as evidenced by other posts in that same thread.

The thread was locked because losers claimed new accounts that came from here, PvP servers and the gaming website were bots. They also claimed the same thing here, which you can't actually do here because posting requires the account to have been active sub at one point.

Posted byu/[deleted]3 years ago


Raiding Zek to fight...

Yeah dude U/[Deleted] sounds like an active account. Oh wait it's a deleted account.

Most of the people who are interested in EQ PvP aren't playing retail EQ, they're playing various emulated servers because there hasn't been a retail PvP server worth anyone's time in over a decade. For that reason, you can't judge the level of interest by the number of people who took the trouble to install the live client and log into the Zek server for the sake of some gesture of interest. It's like saying that everyone who's interested in the return of the McRib must meet up at a pig farm in rural Connecticut to voice their desire for it, and anyone who doesn't do so must not actually like McRib sandwiches or else they'd have gone.

I'm guessing the vast majority of people who would be overjoyed at a new PvP server didn't even know that Zek event took place. I certainly hadn't heard about it until this thread. It's wildly irrational to use that as a metric for interest. If you can't see the difference between logging onto Zek to signal your interest in PvP, and actually playing on a new PvP server, you're out of your mind.