Yes i made a post about this a while ago, you are missing combat agility and physical enhancement and potentially any buffs like foresight. You ignore heroic strikethrough and base skill a lot when you talk about heroics. I'm parsing heroic strikethrough at around 60, could be anywhere from 55 to 65 I'm not sure. If you wanted to defend 100% of the time with one skill relying only on heroics you would need about 4k of that heroic for ToL raid mobs. Thankfully we aren't relying solely on heroics and we have the base skill. you still need about 3500 of a heroic to hit 100% though, in that ballpark anyway. but since we have multiple defense skills, the diminshing returns after any skill hits about 3k makes getting any more pretty pointless. You are wrong about HDex not being a good dps boost for paladins, it absolutely is. and HDex is the heroic every knight should go for, we also benefit from their epic. If you are the type of person who wants to go solely for the best defense you can, then the answer is 100% heroic agility, definitely not stamina. The amount of avoidance provided by 3500 hagi is far, far better than the measly amount of hp and shielding you get from HSta. Glyph compounds very well with HAgi to give you a very decent chance to be missed. Not to mention the full benefit of 25% (variable based on mob strikethrough but ToL raid mobs seem to be 75% strikethrough) defense that it now gives. HAgi was arguably better than HSta before they lowered regular strikethrough and it's definitely better now.
Do you have any parses that show this against ToL raid mobs? In all the years of the tank hero stat discussion I've never seen parses against ToL raid mobs that quantify the hit chance difference between sta, dex and agi.
Nope it just goes to show how stubborn people are. If you melee, you go dex. The end. Whatever "tangible" survivability scenario you manifest in your mind is nothing compared to the dps difference.
You must be new to playing a paladin and this entire conversation about heroics. The improvements in dps from dex are just as negligible as going agi for mitigation but far less visible than going sta. You can decide to err on the side of an infinitesimal increase in dps, others choose to err on the side of a tiny bit more mitigation by going agi or you can get a small but much more comparatively, significantly measurable result by going sta. You do you, but you didn't throw a rubber stamp on the conversation by saying "if you melee you go dex." What a simplistic and laughable argument.
he is not new to either of those things the dps gains from dexterity are not negligible the hp gains from hSta are more apparent on a stats line, but just being visible doesn't make them good
The Sancus sheet that got linked in another thread is really good at evaluating the impact of adding more HDex.
While my paladin experience in EQ is probably dwarfed to you, that's actually not really a factor here. You must be new to quantifiable numbers. I could actually argue that stacking dex is MORE important (or impactful) on knights than some other melee classes, due to our innately low crit. Do you understand how difficult it is to even get above 90% crit? Do you understand how little an extra 20k? hp matters lol. Sidenote: I would encourage everyone to stop trying to use the argument of "I'm played [class/game] for 300 years, so I am intrinsically an expert". This type of mentality without any context is usually expressed by the absolute bottom barrel players I have seen. "I have been playing a necro for 15 years" get demolished on a parse by a 1 year necro. There are people like Sancus, Kizant, Beimeth, Szilent, etc that, while they have played for a LONG time, thats less important than how they have spent their time.
I don't think any of it matters anymore. Do what you want. I like dex because I like doing more dps versus less. The stat bloat is so ridiculous, and gear so meaningless, its one of the reasons I actually have been enjoying TLP server lately. Getting a 10 ac increase in Anguish actually feels like it matters.
Sure, experience doesn't matter, except when it does, which is pretty much all the time. I am not new to quantifiable numbers. I would love to hear how you quantity doing maybe 1% more dps at the sacrifice of your ability to survive on raids. 20k hp isnt a lot. Except when you add it to the other 600khp or whatever and its enough to keep you from dying to a heavy round of damage or an AE. You want context? I've been playing since 2000 and have been a top or the top paladin on my server and really all servers, for the entire time. I've been a raid leader in 4 different high ends guilds over that time to a tune of about 16 or 17 of the 23 years EQ has existed. Been a guild leader of a top 10 guild for 7 years, with a 3rd place finish in TOV. You wouldn't guess it, because I am a stamina tank, but I've topped many, many raid parses on a paladin, mostly undead but a few live ones such as Herald of Oratory in VOA. Most recently I've topped parses on Griklor, Zlandicar and Doomshade but I've got top 5 finishes on most of the undead raids in the entire history of EQ. You'll notice I talk about a lot of undead raids here. That's because really the only time a paladin is a dps option is on undead raids. You know that. Everyone knows that. You should also know that a paladin doesn't need dex to top undead parses, but sure it helps. I guess you could top them 1% higher. 1 is still 1 right? The reality is, on almost every live raid, paladins are NOT a dps option. In fact they are terrible dps. 1% more of terrible is still terrible. You know what we do good though right? We tank adds. And boy do we do a good job of that. Especially if we do everything we can to make our toons as survivable as possible. You do know dex doesn't do anything at all for us on raids defensively right? It might cause a few more procs of your weapon I suppose. You see. Thats our job, on 90% of the raids in EQ's history, its to tank adds. So building your toon to excel at that is really the most important thing a paladin can do. I assure you, no raid in the history of EQ has ever been won because of a paladins dps. On raids that a paladin can top the parse, like Griklor Zlandicar and Doomshade, your guild would win those raids even if you never turned on attack. On the other hand, there are tons and tons of times that a guild was able to stave off a loss and pull out a win because of the efforts of talented paladins that were able to stay alive and pull things together through their survivability while the rest of the raid recovered. So all in all, yea dex is stupid but I do enjoy to top undead parses even without it. Can dex paladins tank things? Sure. The mudflation is absurd. But they will never be as survivable on raids as if they went agility or stamina. Just facts.
ok bro. you know, of all the things Frankthebank said, the absolutely silliest was when he put your name up there with some of the giants of EQ in this quote: Lost all credibility with that nonsense.
Trying to found your point on a conflation of magelo ranking with player quality is absolutely absurd.
How did you come up with this number? I would've guessed it would be higher, like closer to 5%, but I'm an amateur paladin at best.
considerably higher. Faithfighter, in <RotE> with Maedhros, is highest hp among paladins synced to Magelo with 3268hSta, for 521705hp. he has 1902hDex the other side of that coin is Chinger, of <Triton>, with "just" 505299hp since he's chosen instead to have 3354hDex presuming they have all the same non-gear boosts available, that 1442 difference in dex cap represents 14.9% melee crit rate, which is in turn considerably more than 14.9% melee dps edit, this is a fun tidbit: notably, with sufficiently stacked up adps & extras (all 8 trophies maxing the dex boost, empowered fire/banner, both trib boosts, potion, a max Restless Focused Focus buff, shm Ancestral Aid), those geared like Chinger are just able to reach full melee criticals for the duration of Rk. III Pureforge.
Why are you making presumptions? The gear is mostly irrelevant. Everyone is going to get pretty much the same gear and slot 7/8 augs. The only real difference is a persons decision on their type 5s. There are 21 gear slots, and for arguments sake you could very easily do the math on the heroics for a hypothetical set of the vendor purchased slot 5s from group coins. Since we're talking about dps right now, even though thats only the tertiary role of a paladin, with primary of course being to tank and secondary being to heal, we would do the math with a paladin using his or her 2 hander, so 20 gear slots. Which ever heroic aug type you choose it ends up being 1860 for the primary heroic, 860 for secondary and 560 for tertiary. Thats a 1300 swing depending on which aug set you choose for the primary vs tertiary heroic stat. 20,800hp difference between sta and dex. Is it more than 1% more dps to go dex, sure, maybe. But it sure as heck wont be 15%. Most importantly even if it was 15%. 15% more of terrible dps is still terrible. A paladins job is to tank.
