For Those Who've Encountered Suspensions

Not to mention that the automation software also has mods which allow warping and real time tracking.

Not all arsonists are the same. Some start a safe campfire in the wilderness miles away from everyone and enjoy their time in peace. Others throw Molotov cocktails into houses or businesses and burn them down. You keep trying to lump everyone into a single group when there are clear distinctions between them (i.e. active players vs. AFK players).

Monitor and take action based on behavior, which is what I already said and covered and am also calling for.

Leave the people alone that are playing actively at the keyboard, or give them a safe place to do it. Take action against the players that are AFK XPing 24/7 on a server that does not allow it.

So ban based on that behavior.

I could warp if I wanted to without using any 3rd party programs out there now. I could put something together in less than 10 minutes. What I wrote wouldn't match any signatures of any known 3rd party program out there now. Do you think I'm the only one that could do this? Do you think people would be less ethical than myself? This is why you need to take action based on behavior, not what programs are installed or detected as in use.

I have not found a more self-righteous, sanctimonious poster in the 22+ years I have played this game.

You add nothing, other than YOUR opinion - to the threads you post on. I have not seen anywhere on these boards where you are deemed the "defacto" Darkpaw mouth-piece for "right and wrong".

A healthy discussion here is what was attempting to occur - we do not need your input on this point - at all.

You should look up the definition of arson. It is the crime of willfully and maliciously setting fire to or charring property. There are no "good arsonists."

Automators are in-game arsonists through the destructive community effects/negative externalities of automated farming.

Automation is automation. It's a clear cut distinction. Do you really expect Daybreak to lose dozens of hours of GM/CS time to distinguish between Joe the Benign Automator who voluntarily destroys his platinum and loot (which are zero automators) and Joe the Malicious Automator who farms to acquire Krono and expansion keys?

New Member,

I am advocating the anti-cheat argument which is in line with Daybreak's current policies.

I like the discussion because it refines and strengthens the discourse. I now focus on the negative externalities of automation (automated farming).

Of course, you will want to suppress my arguments because it gives Daybreak impetus to continue with their current anti-automation/anti-cheat policy.

Not new to EQ, at all (reading is your friend)

I do not want to suppress anything - oddly enough, you are the leading voice (along with a few others) who want to suppress any arguments you disagree with.
Funny how that happens - isn't it.

My guess is that identifying suspension-worthy behavior is much harder to automate by DBG. It is probably easier just to scan for whatever you have running in the background.

It is probably fairly easy to find box-assisting software that doesn't offer any rule breaking functionality and therefore doesn't trigger any suspensions.

If the user behavior is not the problem, then it should be easy to adapt to a different and more accepted utility.

EQ Forums and healthy discussion rarely go hand in hand.

I can read. Your forum tag says 'New Member.'

Why would I want to suppress anyone's arguments? The more pro-cheat crowd exchange ideas with me, the stronger I find my anti-cheat arguments.

I didn't think I needed to go to that level of detail and in fact I'd started to type it. Fine. People that use campfires in a forest for 15+ years because so many others also had and the forest ranger looked the other way until 4 months ago. Some people are standing up and championing for campfires to still be allowed as they are doing no harm to anyone else.

We can go back and forth on this equivalence thing forever so I suggest we move on from it. I've made my point without having to keep doing this.

Yes. We are calling for DPG to make the distinction of abusers and leave those of us alone that aren't bothering anyone else. Whether that's through policy change or moving to a different server, I don't care either way.

1. Arson is arson. Automation is automation. Both have analoguous destructive effects on a community.

2. Your campfire argument still fails to pass muster. Policymakers have banned campfires because of the threat of wildfires. Wildfires threaten lives and property, costs millions of dollars in resource to control, and destroys ecosystems.

You are implying that since my tag says "New Member" I am somehow - not as attuned to the discussion at hand?.....

anyway

Your choice of words for your posts shows you have zero intention of listening to opposing views - any view you find "wrong" you throw shade and hide behind the DP rules.

I would like to hear all sides so I can make an informed decision without some sanctimonious forum poster with eq lootz envy popping up on every thread and banging a drum..... jeez dude

Coming from a programmer - and I try to mean this without offense, this just shows that you don't understand the inner workings of how this stuff does what it does and how hard it actually is to accurately detect malicious behavior on the client versus on the server. The client is far, far, faaaaaaar easier to avoid detection on. I already gave an example above where I could code around any detection they have now in a matter of minutes. Back to my statement of Rule #1 - never trust the client. (I've also said this numerous times now)

In order to not bother anyone else, you will need to destroy your loot. Otherwise, automated loot/wealth will enter the server economy and automators still benefit from their advantageous gameplay.

But you have said you are unwilling to restrict access to loot, platinum, and Krono. Therefore, you are still imposing negative externalities on the community.

You are affecting the server economy and holding onto that ill-gotten wealth.

Because I already said you exhausted me and I just don't feel like putting the energy into arguing it anymore even though I could. I'm sure you'll have a counterargument to everything I say and I'll have one back at yours. That's why I said just move on from it.

You are free to ignore. Click on my profile and press Ignore.

I will defend the anti-automation and anti-cheat rules as long as people keep making pro-automation and pro-cheat threads and posts.

I have heard the less checked pro-cheat posts on EQ Facebook and EQ Discord gives EQ a bad look.

They don't have to do that. Characters that play themselves without ANY interaction from a client is against the rules. Seeing everything on the map is against the rules. Just because YOU want it, doesn't mean Daybreak has to give it to you.

Yes, you could certainly code around their detection methods. They could change their detection methods and start just banning people immediately when they see the software instead of just multiple suspensions then a bad too.

The vast majority of my gear (90% likely) has been purchased in bazaar using Krono. In fact, every equippable slot has been. Why should I have to delete that gear?

So do we have DPG also go back to the dawn of time and also destroy any loot you happened to purchase that was originally gotten by an AFK camper? Or any gear you got while grouped with someone that was using 3rd party tools and you didn't even realize it? What about gear you obtained that was originally ill-obtained that you sold? Is that plat you obtained also removed? Slippery slope my friend.

Again, I don't have the energy for this today.