Making Progression Not Required On Release Then REQUIRING It?

10 blue vs 6+ yellow, quite a difference. Also, when you tank those 10 blue, do you sword and board, or 2h it? Here is the reason I ask...our main tank, who is not in raid gear (has T2 group visible + chase + most heroic AA) can take on 10 blue with a 2h weapon, and 6+ yellow with sword and board.

Yes, it also depends on what the rest of the group can do. But everyone is that much better at doing their part with heroic AAs. As I have stated, my gameplay has significantly improved with heroic AA, so my role supporting that tank is much better as well. Our healer with heroic AA supports that tank better as well, making the tank more effective.

Point is, yes, you are right. You can survive without heroic AA. But, you improve significantly with them. You won't see it much if you just get one or two ranks in, but by around rank 10, you notice it. So, if you only have a few ranks in, I suggest you keep working on it, get up to around rank 10, then see how it works for you.

I think you greatly exaggerate the limitations.

Comedy gold right here! @Sissruukk See he did, Droga, Chardok, Gates and Labs in two laid back relaxing nights with a SK alt tank, A merc healer and a rogue. Man, obviously, progression is way to easy! I think they need to let me design a few progression quests.

You mean bare minimum doesn't get it done

I don’t care anymore...

Recently returned, casual by most standards, ground through most prog boxing group-geared chanter and druid, with guild help in a few hard spots. It was an extended journey stretched over two months a little at a time.
By my assessment, if you can reliably kill trash in Droga/Chardok, EoK prog is well within your ability. If you can't, trash in Overthere will eat you for lunch without any help from Kar'Zok.

And it's seemingly still being nerfed for XP, i hear each gives one base-AA less now than it did pre-patch.
It's not "people" doing it though, but "box teams" rather.
At least on our server, the number of gribbles that are done has decreased significantly.
Guess with all the XP nerfs they've achieved their goal finally...

Box, box and box of more or less trivial content by now.
I do not see many people in TBM - i am often quite alone there (boxing of course, and on ALTs for which this is already trivial too). And even less do i see people doing actual PROGRESSION.
In fact, i have taken a few people through "Into the temple(b)" and (as expected) never seen them again.

There is nothing "sudden" there.
You do not see many people in old expansions in the first place, and when you do, you mostly see someone taking his box-team there for his own reasons.
If there are any calls in general, it's from people insisting in trying to find people for gribbles or for EoK stuff. It's not unreasonable to extrapolate that into the near future and stating that yes, EoK will not be empty in the first few months but there'll be less and less opportunity to do actual progression unless you box it.
Heck, even over the past 2-3months, progression pickup groups (outside of a guild-relationship) have only rarely happened!

Yes.
People will still do this, like a few still do TDS progression even though it'll be opened up soonish.
But the chances for an overlap of a person needing it on one side and one or more doing it and announcing that they do on the other tends towards zero - more so the older EoK becomes.

I have noticed a difference too...
But i think it's more from being maxed out on "normal" EoK-AAs than the Hero's ones.
Like for so much else, i think the Hero's AAs are - as was said by the post you replied with this to - not needed but they sure are a nice to have.
One i would personally rate even higher than some other "nice to haves", but then i am tank and the AC ones help.
But even without increase in Hero's AAs, i went from tanking only a few when EoK was new (sdpider cave was a challenge without CC) to not caring much how many i get, with the same group.
(i even box the spider part now with WAR+SHM which was unthinkable 8,9months ago for me).

So by my experience: "Hero's" and "go from tanking 2-3 to 4-6+" are not related at all.

Perhaps that's because the two topics you linked with that statement haven't got anything to do with each other?!

About as accurate as your here just fighting for the little guy.

hm?
Assuming much, are you or what?
By all means, elaborate!

Yes, fewer and fewer people are going to be doing EoK as we move along. However, fewer and fewer people are going to be required to do the content. The older it gets, the higher the chance it's either not needed (new expansion), or that someone would be powerful enough to do the majority of it themselves (lvl 110+, high AA count, max gear, etc.).

The point of my post was to outline that people still do old content even though it's not required, and it's not reasonable to think that EoK would be empty considering it is required.

Not directed at anyone in particular, but seems to be an ongoing discussion.

These aren't required. I would highly recommend them though, for numerous reasons. While each one individually might not make much of a difference, there are something like 40/20/40 of them. Multiply the small increase by 40 and you have a not-so-small increase.

Finishing off all of these in an expansion also means you're getting additional rewards - augments (forgotten gemstone), AAs / xp (lots locked behind progression), gear (higher drop rate on some stuff in missions vs. group), and experience (not the leveling kind, the mind kind).


I always looked at the heroic AA count of a new applicant to my guild. It was a good indicator of how much work an applicant put towards their toon. Someone who maxed out their heroic AAs was more likely to have maxed out other things - overall AAs, Tear of Alaris, achievements for augments, gear, augments (type 3, 5, 7/8), handy-dandy-clickies (CoP3/4, Anguish BP, epic, various teleports), collectibles, spell/disc ranks (both current expansion and old), etc. Typically someone who had a high heroic AA count had more of the "other" things completed than someone without.

Yes, some people still do old content occasionally.
The thing is though that those are happening a) rarely and b) even more rarely for progression.
e.g. many just kill in brothers still, for whatever reason, while other TDS zones are empty or have one or two PS-farmers only whenever you go there.

Well yes, it won't be "empty" perhaps.
Certainly not in the first two months, i think.
I don't deny that people will even still be going into an already-very-empty-these-days Droga occasionally for example.
But as time goes on, less and less people will be there in the first place and as i said above, even less than that will be willing to do or be doing progression still.
So unless you can do solo/box it (which will take some time longer than RoS will be "current" me thinks), the chance to hook up with people that are also doing EoK progression still will be practically non-existent. It IS already next to non-existent - unless you're in a guild that helps you out because they need you to have it done.

I reckon most that were willing to do it have, like me, by now done it for all characters they care for...
So the chance for a "pick-up progression group" - isn't, and won't be.

Fully with you on this again.
To me, it comes down to an invest vs. reward thing again and "the closer to the top/finished you are, the more important this becomes".

It was not my intention to imply that they were needed. I know that they are not needed. I was only trying to point out that they can make a toon even better when you have them. Because I have seen tangible results, I believe that the "risk v. reward" and investment is worth it.

The comments to this original post suggest that I go do the Deluge quests, which supposedly require one at least to be accomplished. I checked on the toons who are not getting the seal (all of them) and then completed the entire Deluge quest list to see if that was it. It wasn't. He is still saying you are an ally and here is the recommendation, but I am not getting one in my inventory. I do not have an existing seal anywhere else. I think there is a faction issue, but I have no real direction to go to resolve that. Appreciate any thoughts that would point me in a direction to work the quest line in Lcea, as this problem stops me at the first quest in the EoK series.

the "get the recommendation" step comes after the conversation in the Lceanium throne room. have you spoken to the guy in the throne room? DrownedKattaDude will talk a good game regardless of you being at the right task step

You only need one quest from Katta. Elemental rage from Tactician Sodut is easiest (kill 10 elementals).
You need to have the Contacting Leadership quest up to this point. The word to say to the Scribe in Katta is "commendation"

What I really don't understand is why they are forcing players to play in the previous expansion, both in the raid game and in the group game. Other expansion releases they have nerfed previous content exp to get us playing in the newest expansion, never has anyone needed previous raid content to do new expansion events. Yes other expansions have had things which are nice to have but none of it prevents you from doing the next expansion.

Why is ROS different?

Its a change and I don't like it.

If this has been addressed before, I apologize, i'm not reading through 9 pages of whining to see if the comment's been covered.

focusing on the statement on the group game here.... but are they forcing players to play EOK in order to unlock the group stuff in RoS? because that's not my understanding of it....

or are you just saying that because there's so many of the green sarnak that you effectively have to get the blocker done to enjoy yourself. because that's two completely different things. you CAN eat the green sarnak effect, I do it all the time with my bot crew in labs.... it's just very annoying and makes things unnecessarily difficult.

Unless things have changed since I last checked on beta, you need EOK group visibles to make ROS group visables.