The irony is, the people left playing EQ today are anything but casual. A lot are full-time raiders, and even those that don't raid have to be pretty hard-core to get anywhere. We're talking 30+ hours per week people, lol. EQ had casual players about a decade ago, but they've long since stopped playing.
I'm not quoting you just in case your post is removed for some reason which would make this response "trolling" by the standards of this forum. you're argument is right for the most part, if angrier than the community here will probably tolerate, sadly. you should really edit it b4 it's removed. I didn't mean to insult you, I simply stated a fact: the game is more casual-friendly now with these changes. sorry. you're right about this though: I missed it. yep. why should everyone who's missed it never get the opportunity again? ppl like you, back in the day, may not have ended up staying so long if this game was in its current state way back then. it's gone from merciless to spoon-feeding. you seem to try to be arguing FOR the first 15 or so games being skipped/skimmed through.... I believe that you just don't want to be tempted to start over on the hardcore server... or maybe you're afraid that you'd feel all of the progress you made back in the day, while it'd be stuck on the "softcore" servers, would mean less with the hardcore server around. you also state that missing it is "my fault," which is just silly. given my exact situation in 1999 I had no real "choice," as no one truly does, to play this game. "choices" are made based on your beliefs, tastes, experiences, brain/body chemistry, environment, intelligence, etc, all of which are beyond your control at any given point in time at which you make a "choice." most ppl are in relatively awful situations for a reason, but this might be a little too nihilistic and I feel it's getting borderline for this forum's bizarre standards, so... I should probably not say much more on this subject as who knows who I might offend....
The big problem is some of your suggested restrictions makes it harder to play and experience the full game then it used to be. People have used fast travel since day one (granted it was more limited since just druids and wizards porting), people have been boxing since day one (again more limited since you needed a second machine), people have been grouping with non guild mates since day one, and finally people have been continuing to play since day one after a death with no cool down period after death. To most people all it sounds like is you want EQ to be harder and a more challenging experience then it ever really was. Also as a side note people can start getting "Free" AA at level 51 not level 55.
actually, the average member of my guild barely play 10 hour a week. with gear being forced down your throat, HA's, group mission and etc, EQ has never been more casual than in coTF. I can run several entire HA's in the time took me to get a spot at the Frenzy ghoul in lguk
"That's what finally killed me. I'm writing this from the afterlife." Props to Fansy, of course, but those guys are more just famous, like Paris Hilton. Fansy is famous for using a loophole to grief players on a massive scale on the "no rules" server, and Sam is famous for being one of the first (the first?) successful 6-boxer. If you want to talk about a legend of EQ, how about Thott? He was co-leader of <Afterlife>, the top guild back in the day, who apparently helped create the concept and implementation of DKP, a concept, and acronym still in use across the MMO genre; even in games with no "Dragons!" He went on to create Thottbot. I'll never forget finally getting my raid guild keyed for Veeshan's Peak, the super-hard, end-game zone in Kunark only to find a single group, including Thott, Wendolyn, and others of <Afterlife> killing trash at the zin for fun! I'll let you in on a secret: most of the people claiming that they want to "see content" don't actually want to do that. I learned that trying to get people to do Relv the Mysterious. This was a precursor to instanced missions and was for two groups. When my guild had some time, I tried to get them to do this mission as none of us had "seen" it. However, because we all had better gear, and didn't need the drops, my elite guild of nearly a hundred regular players couldn't field a force capable of doing it despite most of them giving lip service to the idea of wanting to "see content." You want to see content, become one of the few to enter the Grandmaster's lair in PoWar. Then you can complain that there's nothing more to do but repeat the same stuff.
My reply got nuked, but I'll recite it here (without the content that got it wiped): EQ's changed over 15 years. For EQ, like life, there's one truth: You can't go back again. And if you really want to, go to "The Thing That Shall Not Be Named" (for EQ, not life). Have fun. I doubt you'll get many takers.
as a bard the free aa's started at lvl 55 I believe... oh no, you're right, there were aa's at 51 that no one wants like tailoring mastery etc.... fast travel through the origin aa or druid/wizard skills would obviously be fine, I'm talking about zones that are linked to every corner of every continent +, I didn't think I had to specify.... and the pok is allowed, it just has to be exited through the same portal as it was entered. it was to be used mostly for spells. and I know that back in the day you couldn't buy your spells there, I don't care. "ppl grouping with nonguildmembers" back in the day was different, you couldn't group with a lvl 100 max aa's back then either, so... this rule is here to prevent from indirectly benefiting from all of the other things that I would have removed. I didn't think I had to explain this either. I know there's no cooldown period as part of the death penalty, but since there is no harsh xp penalty any more, I figured that something else would have to be done. I obviously went way too far, so you're pretty much right here. that's something that whoever would end up leading this guild would probably change for sure. multiboxing just isn't something a lot of ppl want. it potentially defeats the purpose of community entirely.... Karthanon, I would edit that post so as not to get in trouble for "discussing moderation," which is just as against the rules as mentioning other unspecified, unofficial things related to eq.... I'm not discussing moderation, just reminding folks of some rules. oh, and the guy 2 posts up from your's seems to be a potential supporter, despite the fact that most would-be supporters have left this place already. Vlerg!!! a like-minded individual, I'm so happy and yet so sad that I'm so happy b/c I wouldn't be so happy if it weren't so rare... strange feeling this is.... to everyone else that I haven't mentioned, I do read every post and appreciate them all, if I don't respond to certain posts individually it's actually most likely b/c I see nothing wrong with it. don't take it as an insult.
Some other changes you're ignoring if you want to experience what it was like back in the day. You need to limit everyone to just using 1 hotbar window & only 10 of the 12 hotbuttons. Also, they can only use 8 of the 10 inventory slots for normal use and cannot use any bags which have more than 10 slots until they are 86+. I would suggest allowing them to use big bags in the 9th and 10th inventory slots in order to unequip all of their gear into those bags. They also should only be able to use 8 of the 24 bank slots until they reach level 65 at which point they can use 16, and then at level 75(I think it was TBS [or maybe it was TSS] when we got the last bank upgrade) they can use all 24. Additionally all melee disciplines need to be considered as being on a single timer instead of 18 different ones. These things honestly have more to do with what made the game harder than most of what you listed.
Thinking about this whole concept and the fact of the matter is that an attempt to play EQ in it's entirety is mind boggling. How many people have completely finished the entire "Heroes Journey" series of quests and tasks? How many people have done every possible old world quest available to just their class? Doing those things really is Everquest. I know some people who've done every class Epic by using shrouds. Just because you aren't being slaughtered at level 10 because you're in defiant gear doesn't mean that you aren't "playing Everquest in it's entirety" Look at just your Achievement Windows an think about what that entails to be able to clear everything out, to get every conceivable flag and then compare that the the 11 point list and try to explain how that list could possibly relate to being able to actually play Everquest in its entirety. The entirety of Everquest is a whole lot bigger than any restricted ruleset could ever handle.
You are missing the point, if you are truly trying to experience all of EQ then what good does making a rule that keeps you from playing EQ to its fullest? All that requiring people to not play for a time after death is encourage them to play ultra conservative and never take any risks. That is one of the things people liked about the original game was the risks involved in going into a dungeon or other dangerous place and wondering how you would get back your gear if you died not worrying about lost play time because you had to log out if you died.
to Too Many Of You: .....I already admitted that the death penalty was too harsh and a better one was already proposed. I can't just edit the OP though, can I? to Xianzu: grouping with nonguildmembers, who are almost guaranteed to be using defiant gear, mercs, and free aa's once they're leveled, defeats the purpose of not using mercs/etc yourself.... the only way to make sure mercs/etc aren't exploited is to disallow grouping with nonguildmembers................ bots are also used to sell things or farm and aren't necessarily boxing. boxing is hated across the board among those who are dissatisfied with the current state of eq, and this is the group of ppl that I expect to be most interested in this, so... "no boxing." I'm also not sure how many times I've said, "I don't even care about most of these rules, I went with these after polling unofficial eq communities who are obviously dissatisfied with what the game has become...." I didn't "cherry pick," w/e you feel makes the game harder or less trivialized, so be it. here was my thought process at the time: if we don't allow spells to be bought at pok these days, where will anyone get them? okay, I suppose that's a noob question. I assume that b4 pok, the spells just dropped from mobs a whole lot more often... I'm sure though, since you're implying that spells shouldn't be allowed to be bought at pok, that there are merchants in other cities that sell them. if that's so, fair enough, it'll most likely be changed by whoever ends up leading this guild (not me, I'm too lazy and have no patience for too many ppl). and that's IF this even happens. if no one objects and you'd like to lead it, go ahead, and do with the rules w/e you'd like. I'm just trying to take steps in the right direction.
Since the most common cause for dissatisfaction seems to be a perceived lack of content I have to seriously doubt that boxing is hated across the board or even worried about. There are entirely too many posts on this forum where people ask opinions about what class to add and they are always lively discussions
It's been about a week, how's your new guild doing? How many members do you have and how many are online each night?
oh and I forgot (again). a lot of ppl have asked q's to the effect of: how will you go about enforcing these rules? I didn't want to admit it, but I really don't give a damn if the rules are followed when I'm not there to see them broken. so long as when I'm on and grouped with ppl they're not making it entirely too easy for me, I'm happy, as I've stated I don't even need all of these rules. "no free aa's" could be the only rule and I'd play again, albeit with much less enthusiasm than with a more challenging set of rules. I wouldn't expect ppl to break the rules anyway though, if they didn't want this challenge then they probably wouldn't join the guild in the first place. I certainly don't expect them to break the rules in front of other members, so if they get away with it and later I'm in blissful ignorance in a party with them, what could I possibly care? I hesitate to post this, as I probably shouldn't be admitting this, but honesty is honesty, right? on an unofficial eq forum where I posted this same thread, someone posted something hilarious on this topic, my fav post so far, so I figure I'll share it with you guys. this is how he predicted the guild's chat would often go: GL: POK! Smokey: huh? GL: I'm sorry Smokey, you used POK, that's a foul, you're not raiding with us. Smokey: bull**** I did. I'm raiding, dude. GL: excuse me? this isn't 'nam, Smokey, there are rules. Smokey: well yeah, but I didn't use POK.... GL: Smokey, if you don't go back and walk from where ever it is that you came from, you are entering a world of pain. Smokey: but I used a druid port, man, not POK. GL: HAS THE WHOLE WORLD GONE CRAZY? AM I THE ONLY ONE AROUND HERE WHO GIVES A **** ABOUT THE RULES?! Smokey: alright, geez, I'll gate and walk back, are you happy now, psycho? GL: it's a progression guild, Smokey. a few faulty assumptions, but hilarious nonetheless.
That does bring up an interesting point, since druids and wizards can send people to PoK and there are clickies to take someone there how do you plan on handling it when it is impossible to exit PoK to the place you entered it from?
I was surprised the boxing was such a big deal to them as well, it's practically invisible. I've never run into anyone who did it, myself, but they really don't care how rare it is. their little game didn't allow it and that was huge to them for w/e reason. the very first reply I got mentioned it first and everyone on the first page agreed with him. the posters on the forum of any community are the most radical about w/e it is their forum is about, that much I've confirmed.
by not skipping or, if you actually decide to play through it instead of skipping it entirely, skimming the first 15 games with the use of unreasonably powerful resources such as stat-capping gear, mercs, and max aa's, none of which were available for many of the games being skipped. the way it is now, easily skimming through the first 15 games is the best experience of them available to anyone with SOE, and vague, generic statements aren't going to change this fact.
disallow clickies and ports to POK? or just allow POK fully for all I care, I'm up for a vote if we ever get this going.
