Changes with the February Update: Developer Updates

Yes, this is why I said in some situations. You also have to remember that we're in the second year with the same level cap so the content can only build on top of what was already there. If we get another level cap increase then obviously we'll be murdering many blue con mobs again.

So it's not amazing, but it's better than what I'm looking at getting. Depending on content, of course. Also I should add that I think this change is going in regardless of what any of us say so I'm talking as though it's done, this could be why it seems like I'm arguing with you when I really just wanted to explain how it seems like it'll work.

If they really wanted to slow dwn mass pulls for rangers they would nerf the spell vinelash cascade & not AA headshot.

As implied by the thread name, these changes would be part of our mid-month February update. I'm not sure if the date is firm enough to announce yet. It will almost certainly not be on President's Day, the 17th, as this is a company-wide holiday, but that week is a safe bet. And for Furbykiller, it'll be 2014, not 2020.

Soloing dark blues might work for rangers, but it will continue to not work for rogues or berserkers. Even if riposte still triggered them it wouldn't be viable. We're not killing mobs with over 1 mill hp in melee combat without someone else tanking. We cannot take sustained damage from them without defensive discs, 1 of the rogue discs lowers melee DPS and the other just ties up half our main DPS abilities via disc usage so that we no longer have the DPS to kill mobs with that kind of hp.

I think the only time I ever swarmed anything conning even remotely interesting in recent memory as a rogue is waiting for all the various monsters to spawn in Doom, Menace and Horror mission and than ripping em down. A gnat farting on them could have killed them just as dead, but it was fun for my weak sauce rogue "swarming" ability to have its moment in the sun. Was good for some S's and G's.

I understand the problem you are trying to solve (the AA thing), but I don't think this is the right way to go about it. If you don't also ramp up the AA bonus curve, most classes will be worse off soon after 85. They are going to find their AA bonus all used up on a bunch of things that don't help their primary class role or that are downright useless (rogue shield block and innate intelligence FTW). Then they will be stuck grinding out the AA they really need at a much slower pace.

As stated above, one way to address this would be to extend the AA bonus curve. Another possibility would be to go back and make all of the auto granted AA only cost 1 point. That would at least mitigate the damage somewhat. That would also make it much less maddening for those that choose to opt out of auto granting to focus on using their experience bonus on core AA. Ideally, you would also refund back the difference for those that already bought the AA, though I know you have stated that you don't want to do that.

Or better yet, you don't do this at all and take some time away from expansion development to address the problem more creatively. There have been some great ideas in these two threads. I personally loved the one about creating quest lines that tell the lore from each expansion that awarded large amounts of AA. This gets people into all of the great content that currently sits unused without making it feel like a grind. At the end, they might be sitting at the same 4-5kish AA, but it is spent how they want and was still earned in some way.

If it takes time to build out alternate ways to earn AA, then put off some of the other changes. Fix the cheesy beam pulling that is utilizing zone lag exploits, but leave the other abilities alone for now. I guarantee you that rangers, SK's and berserkers would be ecstatic if they had better options for earning AA than killing masses of light blues over and over. If you get the other part right, then there will be no reason to touch the current abilities.

Why did you have to grant AAs all the way through Underfoot? Do you devs really honestly think that's not excessive?

It wasn't by accident that I qualified the recourse as one of the tradeoffs. Recast times and less efficient mana per damage ratios were other tradeoffs. Now normally I would not step in to comment authoritatively on another designer's system, but since I created these spells I'm perfectly happy to discuss the design intent.

I don't think making beams more appealing is a direction we're comfortable going right now.

That's what I already asked before, but didn't get a real explanation why they chose UF. I feel that SoF would be a much less controversial point. Piestro said that they did discuss it and chose UF, but didn't explain why.

Underfoot came out 4 years ago. Its not exactly recent. It was also a lvl 85 expansion with no level cap increase from the previous and not many AAs compared to SoD. Underfoot scaled AA counts probably give enough power to be able to at least survive, but not be effective.

I play a lowish level Ranger alt.

1. Vinelash Cascade has nowhere near the disruptive potential of beam kiting or SK swarming. You don't pull as many mobs as you can because your kill rate is lower and as mobs break Vinelash they tend to spread out and get more difficult to control. Vinelash Cascade is something like AE Mezz. Unless you have 4ish Enchanters (or in this case Rangers) there's no chance that you can lock down 50 mobs.

2. IMO headshot isn't at all in the same league as beam kitting or SK swarming. In these cases you don't have to lock down mobs all you have to do is keep them aggro on you - much easier.

I think in general any nerf to Headshot is a case of hey we're dishing out a little pain - everybody have some. IF I really stretch things then it's the potential for building a Headshot, Assassinate, Decap melee group that has devs concerned. It can very probably be done and I expect if SOE is going after mass kill they're going after it root and branch.

Since I only play an alt Ranger I'm not about to say what I think about the Ranger changes except to note it will put a severe kink in their ability to solo for experience.

I don't have data and honestly I am not the tech savy guy that has all these random applications to pull logs with. I based my numbers on two facts; 1: just by casting both arrow nukes you have the potential to proc headshot 8 times. No it doesn't work that way every single time but sometimes it does go off that way. 2: I can pull 10 lizards in the Feerrott, vinelash them and have every one of them dead without ever having to recast vinelash. Vinelash lasts 36seconds if I remember correctly, each lizard takes 2 to 3 headshot procs to kill. So while I may not have logs, I can do some simple and dirty math to know that I am procing a hell of a lot more than 9 times in a minute. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I have max overhaste and over 1200dex but I know how often I am capable of procing. Again, it does not always proc in the high end, but I think any ranger that has every done the temples in the feerrott knows that 9 procs per minute is a underestimate. Perhaps you log is not counting the nukes that cause HS to proc?

But that's a matter of simple logic and fairness! Ok, if you don't feel comfortable making beams more appealing for wizards, then why not finish the job of making the mages ones as appealing as wizard ones? Cast time is really a non-factor here since they cannot be used for swarming anymore. But you are not adding recourses or 12 sec recast time on mage beams.

Since you're still awake Prathun, would you please tell me if cutting the AA grant by about half and lowering the overall cost of AA's would be a feasible alternative so that ALL would benefit? Also, why or why not?

Long time player cancelled my accounts today. All the work put into our characters is being gifted to those that did not put in the time in the zones to flag, gear up, or quest them while passing untold time with friends, strangers and the occasional frenemy. I understand trying to catch people up, but for myself the value of my character and all that time put in with others is being gifted or reduced to a check box. Many of the old time players often helped out others that invested in the game, themselves, and others in order to get caught up. Giving something for nothing never wins out. You see it in life and continue to see it here. Paid ahead and will see how goes but this has put the foot towards the door . . .

p.s.
Time for the AA rework yet the channels have been broken for how long? People are frustrated with that and then you see them working this to be done and out already.

Don´t you think this should be on the test-server for a few weeks before it goes live ? I assume there will be significant implications for some classes that are were neither foreseen nor intended.

If it's not fair or logical that wizards have lines of instant-cast nukes with detrimental recourses and mages don't, then Norrath is certainly an unfair and illogical place. Also, at this point I'm assuming you're just asking for the lulz, so I will lulz with you.

email i recently sent a best bud:
sorry you have not seen me in the game. i log into the forums now, not the game. i never spent time on the forums, but i have made some posts. sony wants money and they lack ethics. eq1 has had integrity issues in the past and this is heinous. i am departing this game not angry but very disappointed. gee so much i wanted to do yet despite some things i did not like about zones and such. i was having fun.

i am very sorry you spent money on silver accounts. perhaps i will help you attain your goals before i depart. it would be nice to hang out one last time leveling a grind. i am certain my boy will feel like cameo visits to visit his character and house. i will cancel my killer subscriptions and lock down my accounts. i do not want anything i created being made into something so offensively foul as a 4 to 7k AA freebie. my own toil/efforts made those characters and yes my friends helped me here and there. when i told the guild, "1k aa" back in the day, i earned that godlike status.

the guys at work are excited and are beating war-drums to try some new game as a band of brothers. they say wow is the same silliness. i said as long as it is not sony or that game, send me a text. i guess they are deliberating about four games, but promised me a server by 9 AM. sometimes new things find you, gonna have to look and see how old my first toon is and get some account screen shots for my screen shot scrap book. The boy likes the screen shots as much as playing, well we will both be newbies in the new game, he should like that.

respectfully a retired comrade

I'm for making it easier for new people to earn those aa's that they need. Keyword: earn. Even if it's at a greatly accelerated rate. EQ needs them to go gold. Solution: Make a PRESTIGE item that doubles (or more) aa xp earned up to whatever amount you deem fair.

Personally, I'd see them make a nice (slightly overpowered) wrist item for the level range, clickable like the Vestsments Of The Forsaken and has no aug slots. I'm kinda tired of having to worry about getting 2 wrists anyways. I'd set the mark at 5k aa.... the bonus for 0-4k + another 1k at double for them to get a sense that they'll be earning at 1/2 this rate.

Will it stop powerleveling? No, but neither will just giving people the many expansions worth of aa's.

I want people looking at the aa's they plan on buying, so when another person asks them if they have a certain ability that does this-this-this, they at least have a vague sense of 'Oh, that seems familair.'

Well, isn't that kinda the point?

Whats better? Helping out those who want to play or giving concessions to those who post ultimatums and guilt trips of threatening to take their business elsewhere while otherwise being unaffected apart from an ideological level?

Perhaps there was a bunch of feedback from those who quit the game (that little survey thing that pops up when you cancel, which you probably saw if you cancelled for real as opposed to just stirring the pot) and a bunch of people cited the amount of catching up as being too much for why they decided to leave.

I dunno I think I would rather go after the customers who want to participate in what is being offered as opposed to retaining the malcontents at this point.